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Gay Marriage Vote Passes in DC City Council

 
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 10:27 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
My side, the majority side, the vast majority side, is hamstrung because we can't use the words we would like to use. We have to discuss these matters in the terms the minority won't be offended by. We are censored. Free speech has been set aside.


Don't know how things work RE: Freedom of Speech in the UK spendi, but I suspect you are revealing how little you understand the concept of free speech. Freedom of speech is prevention of the government from interfering in your ability to say what you want as long as it does not incite violence (calling for the assassination of a public figure), or induce panic (yelling fire in a theater). you are perfectly free to use whatever words you like here. In fact, I can't understand why you don't. It's not like anyone here is confused about how you feel.

Nobody is stopping you from doing anything spendi. You're censoring yourself. Your boo-hooing about your freedom of speech is amusing.

Totally bored with your posts.
K
O
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 01:27 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
More than just women support homosexuals.

If you draw a diagram with circles, you will see that the big circle has homosexual supporters in it, whilst the two smaller circles has men and women. Addressing one of the smaller circles does not affect the other smaller circle. Quite simple, really.

Quote:
Supporters of gay rights are supporting the rights of both male and female homosexuals, so your statement is once again, half-assed.
Again, I refer you to the circles you had to draw to understand the first part.

Quote:
Actually, it was a man...
You think the woman's movement was started in 2009 by a man ? Now THAT is half arsed.
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 01:31 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
we know that gay marriage has had no effect on the institution.
You can qoute a study that shows this ? If you cant, I understand.

Quote:
The idea that if we let gays get marriage the institution will collapse is the most half-witted attempt to mask bigotry ever.
The idea that if we let homosexuals (they stopped being gay when aids thinned their ranks) get marriage the institution will improve is the most half-witted attempt to glorify sticking a cock in an arsehole ever.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 05:32 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
Totally bored with your posts.


Good!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 05:45 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
you are perfectly free to use whatever words you like here. In fact, I can't understand why you don't.


You know very well I am not perfectly free to say what I want outside of the simple caveats you gave.

Why don't you answer the points I've raised instead of wittering about nothing.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 03:56 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
More than just women support homosexuals.

If you draw a diagram with circles, you will see that the big circle has homosexual supporters in it, whilst the two smaller circles has men and women. Addressing one of the smaller circles does not affect the other smaller circle. Quite simple, really.

Quite a pretend diagram, Ionus.

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Supporters of gay rights are supporting the rights of both male and female homosexuals, so your statement is once again, half-assed.
Again, I refer you to the circles you had to draw to understand the first part.

Again, a pretend diagram that is additionally irrelevant and does nothing to refute my point.

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Actually, it was a man...
You think the woman's movement was started in 2009 by a man ? Now THAT is half arsed.

Read, dumbass. Read. I provided a link. Also, this has nothing to do with a women's movement.

That's contrived nonsense.
K
O
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 04:01 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
we know that gay marriage has had no effect on the institution.
You can qoute a study that shows this ? If you cant, I understand.

The claim that marriage would negatively affect the institution of marriage has been social conservatives claim for many years. They used this idea to prevent any state from trying it. If the topic can be kept in the theoretical realm, it can breed fear, but since multiple states and DC now allow for same sex marriages, we can observe for ourselves that conservatives claim was false.

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
The idea that if we let gays get marriage the institution will collapse is the most half-witted attempt to mask bigotry ever.
The idea that if we let homosexuals (they stopped being gay when aids thinned their ranks) get marriage the institution will improve is the most half-witted attempt to glorify sticking a cock in an arsehole ever.

Who said improve? I said it doesn't have an affect. Not positive or negative. Your default to male homosexuality and specifically the intercourse aspect of their relationship is gross reduction of individuals to single dimensions.

T
K
O
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 05:02 am
@Diest TKO,
I think that male homosexuality does consist of a " gross reduction of individuals to single dimensions."

A method of avoiding the ineluctable, multi-faceted, inscrutable, demanding and dangerous ingenuity of the feminine.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 05:37 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
we can observe for ourselves that conservatives claim was false.
No we cant. Your assumption is that all damage done to marriage is observable even to the not married. This is like saying all white ant damage can be seen from the street, even by a blind person.

Quote:
Your default to male homosexuality and specifically the intercourse aspect of their relationship is gross reduction of individuals to single dimensions.
When people are committing a single act they are in a single dimension. Lets understand what manufactured homosexuals are doing here...they are attempting to reproduce but their minds are damaged and they have found an incorrect way to do it. In an era where we emphasise not dominating women, what do you think homosexuals are doing ? Females have their butch, and males have their fems. They have started wrong and twisted reality to keep the original mistake rather than seek treatment for the source of the problem...why they think the same sex is different. This could be based on self worship, bad experience with the other sex or simply inability to compete. This is totally different from born homosexuals who have a different mind sex to their body sex.

Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 05:41 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
a pretend diagram
What are you talking about ??? Do you know ???

Quote:
this has nothing to do with a women's movement
I dont give a damn what you think it is about. That was what I was talking about. If you dont like it, go talk to someone else.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 06:25 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
we can observe for ourselves that conservatives claim was false.
No we cant. Your assumption is that all damage done to marriage is observable even to the not married. This is like saying all white ant damage can be seen from the street, even by a blind person.

No actually, it's nothing like that all all. You aren't going to win any metaphor competitions with this wit.

Instead, the observable is this: There are states in the USA that do have same sex marriage and those that do not. The people (gay or straight) in states where same sex marriage takes place are no less married nor do they demonstrate any weakening in their marriage when compared to their neighbors in the state where same sex marriage is not recognized.

E.g. - A straight couple in DC was no less married, love each other less, or were less committed the day homosexuals were granted marriage rights.

It's very simple, and if you can't get it, I'll fetch you some crayons and we can wait for your ride to come.

T
K
O
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 06:28 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Quote:
this has nothing to do with a women's movement
I dont give a damn what you think it is about. That was what I was talking about. If you dont like it, go talk to someone else.

You are free to start your own thread Ionus. You can start a women's movement in 2009 thread, and see who comes. This thread however is about a specific topic that has nothing to do with your ranting.

Once again, the bill was not about a women's movement, and it was submitted by a man and it was about same sex marriage.

The lengths you'll go to advert facts... wow.
K
O
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 06:45 am
@Diest TKO,
You can not be bothered turning back a page so I present it here again where you can not continue your stupid ignorance of what I said and go on in your own direction like a druggy.

Quote:
You know why so many women support homosexuals ? Most women at some stage experiment with other women. If there is anything wrong with it, then they might develop a guilty conscience..we cant have improper acts followed by a guilty conscience.
Women also want protection and if men are going to draw the line at anyone who has sex with men, then it could be the thin end of the wedge. Better to fight the war on someone else's turf. Women want protection AND equality...you can tell this policy was designed by a woman.

Perhaps you are not aware that a bill is a political piece of paper ? I was talking about the politics of women in voting for a bill and you have been on a tangent about ...well I am not sure..probably you dont know either.
Quote:
Once again, the bill was not about a women's movement, and it was submitted by a man and it was about same sex marriage.
??????
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 06:49 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
nor do they demonstrate any weakening in their marriage
You are avoiding answering questions on this very point. How do you know ? What weaknesses are people looking for ? Are you leading a survey team or are you making it up ?
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 06:56 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

You can not be bothered turning back a page so I present it here again where you can not continue your stupid ignorance of what I said and go on in your own direction like a druggy.

Quote:
You know why so many women support homosexuals ? Most women at some stage experiment with other women. If there is anything wrong with it, then they might develop a guilty conscience..we cant have improper acts followed by a guilty conscience.
Women also want protection and if men are going to draw the line at anyone who has sex with men, then it could be the thin end of the wedge. Better to fight the war on someone else's turf. Women want protection AND equality...you can tell this policy was designed by a woman.

Perhaps you are not aware that a bill is a political piece of paper ? I was talking about the politics of women in voting for a bill and you have been on a tangent about ...well I am not sure..probably you dont know either.
Quote:
Once again, the bill was not about a women's movement, and it was submitted by a man and it was about same sex marriage.
??????

Pay attention: The post above is completely useless. It has nothing to do with the topic. To bring you up to speed. Here's the short of it: A male member of the DC city council submits a bill to have the same sex marriage recognized. The bill is successfully passed. Simple.

This has nothing to do with a women's movement.
K
O
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 07:02 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Quote:
nor do they demonstrate any weakening in their marriage
You are avoiding answering questions on this very point. How do you know ? What weaknesses are people looking for ? Are you leading a survey team or are you making it up ?

The onus is on the people who claim it does affect marriage to demonstrate a state's compelling interest in keeping marriage to just heterosexuals. Being that the bigots fail completely at demonstrating this, there's nothing left to prove.

A married couple in District of Columbia is just as married as a married couple in West Virginia. No more, no less. What is there to prove?

T
K
O
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 07:25 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
A male member of the DC city council submits a bill to have the same sex marriage recognized. The bill is successfully passed. Simple.
So it specifically excludes women ? It has nothing to do with them ?

Using your logic, if a woman presents a Bill it has everything to do with the womans movement. Are you pretending to be stupid ? It is about politics. You know, where various power groups compete for primacy. Is the womans movement a political power ? Just trying to determine the extent of your ignorance, thats all.
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 07:27 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
The onus is on the people who claim it does affect marriage to demonstrate a state's compelling interest in keeping marriage to just heterosexuals. Being that the bigots fail completely at demonstrating this, there's nothing left to prove.
Totally wrong !! The onus is on people who propose change to prove it will be an improvement. It is baffling that you start off with 'it must be a good idea because it is politically correct, now how do I prove it' ?
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 07:31 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
You know why so many women support homosexuals ? Most women at some stage experiment with other women. If there is anything wrong with it, then they might develop a guilty conscience..we cant have improper acts followed by a guilty conscience.

Women also want protection and if men are going to draw the line at anyone who has sex with men, then it could be the thin end of the wedge. Better to fight the war on someone else's turf. Women want protection AND equality...you can tell this policy was designed by a woman.


Quote:
How do you know ?Are you leading a survey team or are you making it up ?


I'd ask you the same question regarding your statement above. Because I read your stated theory (that most women experiment at some stage with other women and that's why they more readily accept the same behavior in men) and I thought, 'hmmm...could that really be the case - 'most' as in over 50%? And this is what I found:
Quote:
More women " particularly those in their late teens and 20s " are experimenting with bisexuality or at least feel more comfortable reporting same-sex encounters, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The survey, released Thursday by the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics, found that 11.5 percent of women, ages 18 to 44, said they’ve had at least one sexual experience with another women in their lifetimes, compared with about 4 percent of women, ages 18 to 59, who said the same in a comparable survey a decade earlier.

For women in their late teens and 20s, the percentage rose to 14 percent in the more recent survey.


Admittedly, this report is from 2005, and at that time 14 percent of women in their late teens and early 20's reported same sex experimentation, but even if you were to extrapolate that rise in percentage to have remained constant over time or even to have increased - you'd not have reached the stage that over 50% of women of any age had experimented with lesbian activity.

The article went on to say this:
Quote:
“Instead of just anecdotes and stories that raise people’s anxieties, I think it’s best to have real numbers,” said William Mosher, the statistician who oversaw the report. “And now we have those.”

A rite of passage?
When it comes to women and same-sex relationships, Mosher said it would be worth studying why young women seek such relationships, and whether they may be trying to avoid diseases more commonly spread through sex with men.

But some experts who study sexuality say it’s even more likely that many college students simply see experimentation as a rite of passage.

“It’s very safe in the academic community; no one thinks anything of it,” said Elayne Rapping, a professor of American studies at the University of Buffalo who has written about sexuality.

“But to some extent there’s more talk than action,” she added, noting that the bisexuality label has become a “badge of courage” for some college women, even those who only date men. Meanwhile, she said, men who have same-sex experiences are often less likely to talk about it publicly.

The trend among college women has prompted some sexual behavior experts to light-heartedly refer to the term “LUG,” or “lesbian until graduation,” said Craig Kinsley, a neuroscientist at the University of Richmond who studies the biology of sexual orientation and gender.



You may be watching too much 'Girls Gone Wild' or something.

The article in its entirety is here:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9358339/

I post this because you attribute tolerance and acceptance evidenced by women to selfish motives that the numbers prove they have no need to have.
So maybe there's another reason. I'm not saying I know definitively what it is (although I have my own theories - and I can admit they're just theories) but I don't believe that what you say explains it or is a viable explanation.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 07:56 am
@aidan,
I assume Rebecca that the proximity to the female body of infants of both sexes is the likliest explanation of why lesbianism is more acceptable and has never been condemned by the Church.

Psychologists say that our basic nature is set in those early years. Which makes it a bit surprising that lesbianism isn't more popular.

There is also the fact that there is no reproductive loss in lesbianism as there is in male homosexuality.
 

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