Amanda Knox

@Lordyaswas,

Lordyaswas wrote:

You truly are a totally shameless turd, aren't you.
I used to think of you as simply deluded, but I have come to see a real evil streak in you, oral.

OK, look. I've seen enough of your posts that it is clear that you have a functioning brain.

So why don't you explain what exactly your objection is here?

The Kerchers are perpetrating a horrendous atrocity. It is right that they be condemned (and harshly) for what they have done and continue to do.

I hope you aren't giving me credit for what Karma has produced. Karma is an act of the Universe (or who knows, maybe some deity or something). I am not the cause of Karmic justice.

0 Replies

@wandeljw,

wandeljw wrote:

Cruel words about Kercher is far worse than cruel words about Knox.

I disagree.

Besides, did I get something wrong? Is there anything I said that isn't true?

I'm actually retaliating for lies about Amanda by telling the truth about Kercher.

wandeljw wrote:

There is no need to go insane about Amanda and Rafaelle. They both have excellent attorneys.

What good is having an excellent attorney in a third-world hellhole where law and justice are meaningless?

0 Replies

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

I don't really know enough about this one to have an opinion on it, but it doesn't sound like the idea of double-jeopardy means anything in Italy.

Kind of correct.
In Italy, like in any other non-common law country, there are exemtions to the rule that "Nobody shall be punished multiple times for the same crime on the base of general criminal law." (quoting our constitution here)
The exemptions e.g. in Germany are:

Quote:

A retrial not in favour of the defendant is permissible after a final judgement,
- if a document that was considered authentic during the trial was actually not authentic or forged,
- if a witness or authorised expert wilfully or negligently made a wrong deposition or wilfully gave a wrong simple testimony,
- if a professional or lay judge, who made the decision, had committed a crime by violating his or her duties as a judge in the case
- if an acquitted defendant makes a credible confession in court or out of court.

§ 362 StPO ("Penal Procedural Code")

Quote:

A retrial not in favour of the defendant is also permissible if the defendant has been convicted in a final order of summary punishment and new facts or evidence have been brought forward, which establish grounds for a conviction of a felony by themselves or in combination with earlier evidence.

§ 373a StPO

0 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

However, the double jeopardy issue is a bit complex. All these trials actually count as one big trial.

Not really.
The Corte Suprema di Cassazione in Italy is charged with ensuring the “correct application of the law and its uniform interpretation".
So it's only purpose here is to overturn or confirm the previous decisions, and possibly order re-trial based on whether there’s enough evidence that the previous trial had adjudication errors, procedural errors, or lacking, insufficient, on contradictory evidence. Source

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
However, the double jeopardy issue is a bit complex. All these trials actually count as one big trial.

Not really.

Yes really.

I know you like to make up gibberish to try to obscure what a third-world hellhole Italy is. And it would actually be nice if your gibberish were true in this case, since it would guarantee Amanda could never be extradited. But unfortunately, no.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

The Corte Suprema di Cassazione in Italy is charged with ensuring the “correct application of the law and its uniform interpretation".

In theory. In reality they just work to convict whoever they've been bribed to convict.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

So it's only purpose here is to overturn or confirm the previous decisions, and possibly order re-trial based on whether there’s enough evidence that the previous trial had adjudication errors, procedural errors, or lacking, insufficient, on contradictory evidence. Source

No one is regarded as convicted in Italy until Cassation has signed off on their conviction.

That's actually why it was a violation of European law for Italy to hold Amanda and Raffaele in prison for four years. The length of time it takes a case to go through the legal system violates the requirement for a speedy trial.

Italy gets around the speedy trial requirement by not allowing people to be detained in jail until the conviction is final.

Holding Amanda and Raffaele in prison for four years violated that Italian law, and in turn violated European human rights law (speedy trial).

3 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

No one is regarded as convicted in Italy until Cassation has signed off on their conviction.

I don't know where you've studied Italian Law, but as far as I've learnt and as it's written in the books, the Corte Suprema di Cassazione must get a petition. But perhaps you're experiences are different?

0 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Italy gets around the speedy trial requirement by not allowing people to be detained in jail until the conviction is final.

Same here.

I've heart that in the USA prisoners can be in jail without ever having seen a judge ....

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

There are so many subplots in the case that it can never be described concisely. But briefly, here is a short rundown: .....

Thanks, that's pretty loathsome.

I've always sort of admired Alfa Romeos and Maseratis, particularly the little Merak, but it isn't clear there's anything else to admire about Italy. Their opera totally sucks which is sort of a shame since at least half of what's on that Met Opera Sirius channel is Italian...

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Is there any actual possibility of Amanda Knox being extradited back to italy?

2 Replies

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Is there any actual possibility of Amanda Knox being extradited back to italy?

Yes. But not from and by the USA.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Quote:

about Italy. Their opera totally sucks

An American view of culture

1 Reply

@McTag,

Quote:

about Italy. Their opera totally sucks

Quote:
An American view of culture

I wish I could come closer to telling anybody what exactly it was...

I mean, I couldn't tell anybody that I liked ALL German, Russian, or French opera but there's a lot of it which I DO like.

But Italian opera just sucks. I mean, it's possible they could save it by making it women only since it's basically all the male roles which sound like somebody with a severe digestive problem, but I'd not really want to be in the business of trying to promote any sort of a lesbian opera or anything like that.

I upgraded radios in both of my vehicles recently including a radio with a Sirius tuner for the little Honda and Sirius has that Met Opera channel which plays an awful lot of really pretty music, but at least 50% of what it plays is Italian and I've tried to force myself to listen to an hour of Tosca and one or two other Italian pieces recently but it's like forcing myself to try to develop a taste for green vegetables, it just doesn't work.

I mean, I don't even like Mozart's works in Italian while Zauber Floete and other German works are wonderful to listen to. Even Mozart can't save that shitty Italian opera style.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Yes. But not from and by the USA.

..."And so she lived happily in the United States until she died of old age and went to heaven..."

Sounds like a happy ending to me. Thanks.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I don't know where you've studied Italian Law, but as far as I've learnt and as it's written in the books, the Corte Suprema di Cassazione must get a petition. But perhaps you're experiences are different?

They always get that petition, and they always hear it.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Italy gets around the speedy trial requirement by not allowing people to be detained in jail until the conviction is final.

Same here.

But I wager Germany adheres to that requirement.

Italy violated that requirement and illegally held Amanda and Raffaele in prison for four years even though their conviction was nowhere near final.

This is the violation that will ultimately result in the European Court of Human Rights awarding millions of Euros to Amanda and Raffaele.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've heart that in the USA prisoners can be in jail without ever having seen a judge ....

Yes. The US legal system is pretty horrible, in many many respects.

0 Replies

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Is there any actual possibility of Amanda Knox being extradited back to italy?

Hypothetically yes. But I think it's pretty unlikely. I'm a lot more worried about Raffaele right now.

0 Replies

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

..."And so she lived happily in the United States until she died of old age and went to heaven..."
Sounds like a happy ending to me. Thanks.

Raffaele is in a bit more danger.

He's been frequenting a resort on a Caribbean island that has no extradition treaty with Italy. But he keeps going back to Italy.

Last I heard, Raffaele says he will be present in court when the verdict is read.

Just the other day, the judge was dozing while the defense pointed out all the ways the latest prosecution claims contradict reality, and the prosecutor entered a request that, upon conviction, Raffaele be detained illegally again.

The judge woke right up and made sure that the stenographer got the details of the request exactly right.

http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/defense-perfectly-demonstrates-the-innocence-of-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito/

I really hope that Raffaele has the sense to leave Italy ahead of the verdict. He can go back to Italy after the European Court of Human Rights steps in and sets things right.

And then there is the matter of Raffaele's inheritance from his dead mother. If Italy sells it off and gives the money to the Kerchers, I'm sure the Italian taxpayers will be forced to reimburse him in the end, but it'll still be pretty horrible.

I'm unsure if the Kerchers can get at Raffaele's inheritance before the European Court of Human Rights rules on the case. If it all stays on hold until the ECHR rules, everything will be fine and the Kerchers will never see a dime.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

And then there is the matter of Raffaele's inheritance from his dead mother. If Italy sells it off and gives the money to the Kerchers, I'm sure the Italian taxpayers will be forced to reimburse him in the end, but it'll still be pretty horrible.

I'm unsure if the Kerchers can get at Raffaele's inheritance before the European Court of Human Rights rules on the case. If it all stays on hold until the ECHR rules, everything will be fine and the Kerchers will never see a dime.

Whole family sounds like complete trash. I can see why izzythePoop seems to favor them...;

An American getting caught up in something like that in Italy is an abberation however and I tend to worry more about breakdowns in justice in our own land. Cases worth worrying about would include the Patty Hearst case, all of the various mass abuse witchcraft trials of the 1980s, the Wenatchee Wash. case, all of Janet Reno's witchcraft trials, Grant Snowden, Bobby Fijnje, Frank Fuster who's still rotting in a Flori-duh prison for **** which never happened, Gerald Amirault who still has to walk around with some sort of an ankle bracelet for more **** that never happened, the Duke Lacrosse case, the recent Zimmerman case, and any number of others.

I once heard testimony about a case like one of those which never happened because a prosecutor like Nifong had the nature of reality explained to him with the barrel of a 44 right up against his nose...

2 Replies

@gungasnake,

Like Oralboy you get off on torture and rape. The family that are complete scum are the Knox's obviously not as backward and inbred as you and Oralboy but complete lowlife filth all the same.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Like Oralboy you get off on torture and rape. The family that are complete scum are the Knox's obviously not as backward and inbred as you and Oralboy but complete lowlife filth all the same.

Why describe the Knox family with the same unfairness oralloy uses towards the Kerchers?

2 Replies

@wandeljw,

They're the ones who brought up a murderer. Why do you think we should keep quiet when pig ignorant Americans insult and denigrate the memory of a murdered British girl. You may think that being an American gives you the right to torture and rape people from other countries and then insult their memory but I don't.

2 Replies

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