Four cops offed in WA

Lakewood, Washington (CNN) -- Residents of an east Seattle neighborhood were asked to stay indoors late Sunday as police searched the area for a man wanted for questioning in the fatal shooting of four police officers.

Authorities have not identified Maurice Clemmons as a suspect, but said they are looking for him as part of their investigation into the "ambush" Sunday morning at a coffee shop near Tacoma in Pierce County.

Authorities had been in the Leschi neighborhood since 8:40 p.m., blocking off streets and asking residents to lock their doors, said Seattle police spokesman Jeff Keppel.

Earlier Sunday night, word emerged that Clemmons, a convicted criminal with a long rap sheet, had a 95-year prison sentence commuted by then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

Arkansas officials told the sheriff's office that Clemmons is the same person who received clemency from Huckabee in 2000, said sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer.

Huckabee, a Republican presidential candidate in 2008, is considering a run for president in 2012.

"Should he be found responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington state," Huckabee's office said in a statement Sunday night.

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When I turned on the TV this morning, they were describing a swat situation.

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@OmSigDAVID,

The point is, that you're always going to have vulnerable moments. If you structure your life around paranoia and suspicion, you'll not be living and guess what, you'll still have moments of vulnerability. It will be those moments that are chosen.

T
K
O

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@Diest TKO,

Diest TKO wrote:

The point is, that you're always going to have vulnerable moments. If you structure your life around paranoia and suspicion, you'll not be living and guess what, you'll still have moments of vulnerability. It will be those moments that are chosen.

T
K
O

I suppose u r right. Vigilant scrutiny of your security situation
will keep those moments to a minimum; I wish that thay had
an informal sentry -- just one of them faced to look
the other way.

In candor, I will confess to not being much more vigilant than average.

Do we know whether any of the victims were able to draw a gun ?

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@OmSigDAVID,

Given the outcome, I'd guess no. The entirety of this attack probably took 4 seconds. I'd imagine in the first second the lethal assault was complete.

I've been to Tukwila, and forgive my naivety, but it seems like this is one of the last places I'd have ever expected this kind of thing.

T
K
O

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@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:
Your constant inane prattling about the necessity of going around armed was the point of addressing my post to you.

If you don't like his obsession with guns and constant gun talk, starting a thread calling him out on guns is, you know, counterproductive and all. He'd probably talk about guns.

Point taken.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

My point is that it appears that we are at the point in our society
were we can produce an individual who thinks that he can walk into
a coffee shop and execute [he killed them; he did not execute them]
four highly experienced cops in body Armour, and not only do it but
also get away, apparently unharmed (not known yet if he was hit).

I deny that "we can produce" them. I did not produce them. Did u produce them?
I think their parents produced them. We did not produce them as a society.
As to what the individual "thinks" as u put it,
that is his private concern, as distinct from his conduct.

Quote:

What was it six months ago that we had four cops executed in Oakland?

I don 't remember. Anyone who applies for that job knows that its risky, like joining the Army.
About 3 years ago, I was in a cab in Las Vegas (I LOVE Las Vegas)
whose driver said that he had been a Las Vegas Police Officer for several years.
He described how he found it stressful driving around on patrol.
On his last day on the job, he killed someone in a Mexican gang war
related situation. He coud not take it any more, so he got a job
as a cab driver.

Quote:

A few weeks ago 12 soldiers at fort Hood?

What about it?

Quote:

Are you not alarmed in spite of the belief that you know the solution?

I am not an emotional person, in that particular sense.
I know that u want me to say that I am alarmed.
I am not alarmed; that 's just not me. When someone shot at me
and shot out my driver's side window, I was not alarmed.
I just proceeded to take care of business
with my stainless steel mirror .44 revolver n the threat ended abruptly.
I found it mildly humorous; Churchill found it "exhilarating"
to be shot at without result. I got a little chuckle out of it.

On 9/11/1, I was about 10 miles from the World Trade Center
and I saw the rising smoke. I was resentful, but not alarmed.

When this quadruple murder occurred, I was 1000s of miles away;
hence, I coud not possibly help the victims
and the state of my emotions has no effect on the situation.

The murderer might well be a lunatic, of course,
but if not, I wonder whether he was doped up
like the Moros in the Philippine Insurrection of 1899.

David

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Not to ignore that cops have been giving their life for us all along, but this has gotten unbearable, at least to me.

Quote:
According to FBI data, 306 of 521 officers who were feloniously killed between 1997 and 2006 were wearing body armor. More than half of those 306 officers were shot in the head area, 9 percent in the neck/throat area, and 34 percent in the torso area. Of the 103 shots that hit officers in the torso area, 20 penetrated the vest because the vest was not designed to stop that particular weapon, while the remainder entered the torso through open side or shoulder panels, or above or below the vest

http://www.bodyarmornews.com/body-armor-news/officers_require_body_armor.html

I sympathize with your emotional distress, Hawkeye.
If it will help to discuss it, u will have my attention.
I don 't believe that there is anything that we can do
to improve that situation. Do u have a different opinion?

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if the suspect is indeed the killer

gonna hurt ol' mike h's chances

Clemmons was given a 95-year prison sentence in Arkansas in 1989 for a host of charges, including robberies, burglaries, thefts and bringing a gun to school.

His sentence was commuted in 2000 by then-Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, said Troyer.

Huckabee, a Republican presidential candidate in 2008, is considering a run for president in 2012.

"Should [Clemmons] be found responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington state," Huckabee's office said in a statement Sunday night.

Clemmons also had faced recent charges in Pierce County, Washington, in the assault of police officer and rape of a child, authorities said. He had been released on $150,000 bond six days ago, according to online county court records.

Huckabee cited Clemmons' young age -- 17 at the time of his sentencing -- when he announced his decision to commute the sentence, according to newspaper articles.

"It was not something I was pleased with at the time," said Larry Jegley, who prosecuted Clemmons for aggravated robbery and other charges in Pulaski County, Arkansas. "I would be most distressed if this is the same guy."

Huckabee's office said Clemmons' commutation was based on the recommendation of the parole board that determined that he met the conditions for early release.

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@OmSigDAVID,

I'm thinking that if the 4 officers had been carrying the Taurus Titanium 9mm Millennium they would have survived due to the lighter weight and easier mobility.

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

I'm thinking that if the 4 officers had been carrying the Taurus Titanium 9mm Millennium
they would have survived due to the lighter weight and easier mobility.

I have no information as to what thay were carrying.
Do u know what thay had ?

Most police depts. have gone with 9mm.
(To my mind, 9mm is underwhelming.)

I CAN see the use of Titanium for so lite a round as 9mm.

In my opinion: automatic pistols are unreliable; too much jamming.
For defensive purposes: stopping power is the controlling consideration.
I think .44 special with hollowpointed slugs
to apply the brakes within the target for optimal energy dump.

I like a heavier weight revolver, to better absorb recoil.

My own choice has been the .44 special Taurus Model 445 in stainless steel mirror,
which is good for an in terrorem factor in low light conditions.

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@OmSigDAVID,

but then, you're not a cop on the street, are you dave?

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harry Callahan: [at end of main titles] This is a 44. Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world. It can take your head clean off. You've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky?
[fires at the audience]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Officer Phil Sweet: What kind of a load do you use in that .44?
Harry Callahan: It's a light Special. This size gun it gives you better control and less recoil than a .357 Magnum with wadcutters.

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

but then, you're not a cop on the street, are you dave?

Yeah, I 'm not. If I were, then I 'd probably have
another inch or 2 in the barrel for better accuracy, but I 'd
wanna stay with a .44 special or a .45 Long Colt, ideally
staying with hollowpointed slugs with W I D E cavities.
The name of the game is stopping power.

Instructively, we had a case here in NY in the 1960s
wherein some police chased a bum into an alley.
He turned on them, broke a bottle and charged
one of the police, who emptied out his .38 into
the bum 's chest; accordingy, the bum perished
from his wounds, but before he did, he jammed
that fx glass into the officer 's throat inflicting fatal injuries.

The moral of the story is:
its not enuf to kill the bum: u need to STOP him.
Keep him off of u. Decedent 's life depended on that.
A .38 failed to take care of him.
A .44 with hollowpoints, woud have broken his charge.

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The suspect has been killed.

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Does anyone else find the term "offed" to be casual to the point of offensive for describing what happened in Washington?

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@engineer,

Funny, engineer, I was just thinking, before I read your post ... the title of this thread offends me each time I see it.

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@edgarblythe,

This worries me. It was just the suspect and a single cop -- as far as I know, no witnesses.

At the very least, I hope the suspect was actually the person who did the four shootings.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091201/ap_on_re_us/us_officers_shot

The Huckabee angle is interesting, meanwhile... I'm not sure how good his chances were in 2012 anyway, but this is a blow. (Again, if Maurice Clemmons was actually the one who shot the four cops.)

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@msolga,

Same here. It just makes you pause as you read down the topic list.

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@engineer,

Yep. And I don't even know who started this thread, nor the details of the situation!

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Four cops offed in WA

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