Smell-a-thon-cook-fest-wife must stop!

Is it just you who gets to set the conditions of the relationship?

What does SHE want to happen (as stated in front of the counselor)?

I'd like to hear her list of conditions.

If you two are making a contract in order to have better communication, then perhaps it should be in writing. I'm sure the counselor can help you two write it up.

But . . . . Calling someone a liar definately stops the dialogue!!

I don't want to win, loose or draw but I do see your point!

All I want is for her to show me the common courtesies she would observe with a stranger, and I have pointed this out to both her and the counselor many times. The fact is she is more likely to treat a stranger with more courtesy and respect than me.

Now, I'm aware that it's not so uncommon in intimate personal relationships, but that does not make it right, nor excuse her actions, now does it?

I'm not married any longer, by the way...

(nor shorter)

Good points, and yes calling someone a liar can stop dialog. However the claim was so outrageous in its implications, that I felt left with little choice.

I do find it amusing that a number of posters are not able / willing to sustain a successful intimate interpersonal relationship with any more success over the long term than me & Mrs. Chummily (or perhaps with rather less success than me & Mrs. Chummily).

One of the humorous ironies of marital advice giving is that it;s rather easy to give sage advice but rather more difficult to abide by it.

I am not calling you out specifically, and it's cool you're upfront about the dissolution of your prior relationship(s), but I do know that a number other posters have had their marriages go kaput, and it would be rather unsurprising to hear that said other posters were not the ones at fault for said dissolutions.

This is where the humor part comes in, and everyone smiles knowingly and perhaps sheepishly!

Inertia accounts for two-thirds of marriages. But love accounts for the other third. Woody Allen

"I am" is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that "I do" is the longest sentence? George Carlin

I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you want to annoy for the rest of your life. Rita Rudner

I dunno, but if someone told me what they thought they heard me say, and it wasn't correct, I wouldn't lash out with "Liar!".
It is a conversation stopper, or a fight starter.
She might be wrong in her translation, but it is her translation. It doesn't make her statement a lie or her a liar.

I'm not a marriage expert either.

Forewarning: Do not put an exhaust fan in the bedroom, unless you want to suck more kitchen fumes up there!
You could have it blowing in and one in the kitchen blowing out.

I'm not an exhaust expert either.

To further justify whether what I said was apropos or not consider:

1) the immediate disappointment and shock in concert with prior similar rationales on her part begged for a definitive response on my part.

2) as to conditioning you might well be advised to call someone out to similar effect, as if you let them get away with such falsifications / denials / deceptions (call them what you will) then habitation may well be the result, thus similar problems exacerbate not moderate.

3) calling her a liar is not wrong nor bad per se it's context and intent specific.

4) the continuance of duologue at all costs is hardly the best or only merited measure in all cases, as such taking the risk of saying liar may be justified.

It's important to remember that logic doesn't mean **** when dealing with women... it doesn't matter how RIGHT you are about things.

At least, that's been my experience.

Cycloptichorn

True!

But let me ask you a somewhat different question, which has enough common ground in terms of human interpersonal relations to by useful by example.

Your son lies to you about being very rude to the neighbor; do you call him out on it, or do you pretend it did not happen?

She's not your son.

Personally, unless deceit is an integral part of her make-up, and given that she’s apologized in her fashion, I’d be inclined to let it go Chumly.
~~~

What’s the notebook all about?

No Logic. R-i-i-i-ight.

I think there's a different power dynamic in place there. But, I would say that there are a lot of ways to call someone out on stuff other than to call them a 'liar.'

There are two approaches to dealing with problems with other people: attack their actions, and attack their persona.

Asking 'why did you lie to that man?' is asking/attacking actions.

Asking 'why are you a liar?' is asking/attacking persona.

People react very, very, very negatively when you attack their persona. The defenses come flying up instantly. I have found that attacking intrinsic qualities in people is the worst way to move forward productively. Instead, I focus on actions and always give people the chance to explain themselves, before attacking their character.

Cycloptichorn

Which is precisely why I said "But let me ask you a somewhat different question, which has enough common ground in terms of human interpersonal relations to by useful by example."

Which is precisly why I responded as I did.

It's not the same, at all.

I like what cyclo said.

I'm aware of your allusions to the logical fallacy called ad homonym, however I'm not convinced they are applicable in this case. Also my four prior points still stand as you have not addressed them. Also you would need to do that in concert with definitions of the word itself.

Shrug. Too much work to do all that, just trying to help you out.

In a lifetime of dealing with ladies, forgetting about my sense of whether or not I am right, and focusing on the best way to move forward into the future, has been the only way I have enjoyed success in my interpersonal relationships.

Cycloptichorn

It's not helpful to play yes-no-yes-no, thus your opinion without logic, rationale and justification, carries no more weight than that.

Also you are falling into the trap of two logical fallacies:
1) the first one being the Strawman Logical Fallacy as I did not say they were the same.
2) The second one being the Argentum Ad Populum Logical Fallacy as saying you like what cyclo says does not give credence to your opinion.

You can certainly put forth your logic, rationale and justification in the context given but you have not as of yet.

I appreciate your input!