To stay or not to stay ---That is the question.

Sorry aidan if AIDAN is, in some way, an affront.

It's tough keeping up with the case preferences of A2K members.

But I appreciate the sentiment of your post - thanks.

Indeed.

But at least we made Good Ole Dys sick.

It's very interesting that this post that, I am almost embarrassed to admit, was so focused on me has led to a broader discussion about the state of discussion on A2K and certain individual members.

My take-away (for what it is worth):

The majority of A2K members appreciate a civil and reasonable discussion.

There are a small number of the usual miscreants that insist on dragging our discussion to personal levels. Their noxious influence appears to be greater than it actually is.

Setanta has a problem; it seems, with my identifying the miscreants. I, on the other hand, believe that we, as a community of sorts, need to identify those that violate our common values and respond accordingly.

If our common values encompass posts that unfailingly include insults, then we will all embrace the participation of Setanta, Cyclo, CI, Dyslexia and others.

I think this thread has demonstrated that this is not the case.

Here is what I would suggest however:

If you feel that any of these miscreants or others not named (including myself if I should make your list) are polluting this forum with nasty ass poison, then call them out.

We can add right-wing miscreants to the list, but most of them have moved away. Never-the-less, by all means, include them.

We need to call out these schmucks whenever they surface, irrespective of whether their general political persuasion is in accordance with our own.

I admit I have not been diligent in doing so. My rationale has been that there is no shortage of folks condemning Gungasnake and any and all of the Massangato personalities.

Immaterial though. Assholes are assholes, regardless of their politics and if we want an asshole free forum for discussion, we need to call them all out whenever they manifest.

I also admit that there are times when the miscreants succeed in pushing me to lower myself to their level. It's pretty tough to resist responding in kind to Setanta's incessant snotty-ass posts. I can only work harder to do so. It would be helpful though if those of you on the left of the political spectrum, called him out as well. My asking this I acknowledge that it requires a reciprocal response from myself.

Back in the days of Abuzz, there was a vile and cancerous poster who called himself Marburg. His posts were, unfailingly, offensive and extreme, and yet there was a consensus among a fair number of the left-wing posters that none of us really had a right to condemn his hateful and acidic commentary.

Bullshit.

If Marburg or any other poster believed that their venom was in order and needed to be expressed, they could do so (ditto A2K). There is nothing in these forums, thank Goodness, that allows for the squashing of even the most outrageous opinion, but the Community needs to express a common reaction to such filth. Marburg had the right to post his poison, but that didn't preclude all of us, as a community, for calling him out on what it was.

As one of the few conservative who continue to post in this forum, I am no stranger to collective attacks. No problem, as long as such communal attacks are based on communal values rather than communal politics.

So, in conclusion: If you have empathized with my conundrum of whether or not to remain engages in A2K and you understand why I am really tired of trading insults with the miscreants, you can make a difference for this forum by calling out the miscreants when you see them. If you think I am one of them, by all means, call me out too.

For the record, here are the clear miscreants I have identified:

Setanta
JTT
Cyclo
Cicerone Imposter
DrewDad
Dyslexia

You may or may not agree, but if you do, join me in ignoring them, and, if you think me one of them, ignore me.

WHAT words did Robert use ?

I gave one example in # 3,793,529 , if you want to parse the words with me I am game.

I take it that u r inflexibly unwilling to stop
including references to excrement in your posts.
Ostensibly, you are obsessed with excrement
and also with directing our attention to it, if we read your posts.

I like to think about BEAUTY, not its opposite.
My life will be happier and cleaner if I do not see your posts.

I am putting u on Ignore.
I suggest that u put me on Ignore, reciprocally. Good bye.





David

Finn - it was a joke- I was not affronted at all - and I know it's weird but I seriously do walk around seeing caps and automatically translating them into acronyms...

All I can say about your list of miscreants is that JTT and Cyclo have always been polite to me-Drewdad too (although I've never really interacted with him - or Dys - I just don't go for those one sentence cryptic forms of communication that can very easily be misinterpreted and I don't find all that funny or informative.
I know JTT doesn't seem to appreciate the positive points of Americans-even though I think he's admitted he is one...and I am too- and I can see some negatives about America and Americans, but I can see the positives about America and Americans because in general I like Americans- let's put it this way - I've never traveled to or been in another country I'd rather have grown up in....so we could disagree on that level.
But we just never have.
Cyclo is probably a little further left than I am as is Diest and sometimes I think they want to push a point a little further than it needs to be pushed to try to create a chasm where maybe there's just a crack - but again - I've just learned that if there's no meeting of the minds to be found - it's better to just disengage - chill out and listen to some music or do a couple of acronyms.

I think the thing that bothers me most is not the disagreements or even particularly the incivility - I know people get emotional and curse and stuff when they feel passionate about an issue.

I don't like when someone, because they have thought their idea through to one conclusion, assumes that someone else doesn't also have the foresight and ability to reason to have thought it through as well - even if they have arrived at a different conclusion.

And sometimes people say people say things they never even said. I just participated in one thread last week where literally people were writing things that I had said that I never said.
And I'm sitting here thinking - is there a problem with reading comprehension or something....or are people just attributing to a poster what they THINK that poster thinks or WOULD say - which is hard to do if you've never met the poster.

Oh well...sometimes it's interesting. Sometimes it's frustrating. Sometimes it's boring..Sometimes it's fun (acronyms, music) but that's life.

To reiterate- the caps thing was not an affront - I was just making a joke about how I've programmed my brain to react to caps now - via a2k.

OK; with the use of that number, I found the words
that u have attributed to Robert.

As far as parsing them:
(very informally) my observation is that those words expressed a HOPE,
as distinct from a command in the exercise of his proprietary rights.

Those words did not command u to leave,
nor did thay inform u that u r going to locked out
(as indeed, it appears that u have not been locked out).

The words also included an evaluation of yourself
and of your posting history, but did not go as far as to throw u out.

If I c u in December, I 'll look out for attacking democrats.

A hope unfounded..


Talking about civility, a few times I've seen HE, pretending to be civil and polite and being unnecessarily offensive in his very next post.

Is it contradictory statements or just plain lies?

thanks David - but if u c me - I'll be a defensive democrat - the lone democrat in the enemy republican camp (my family)

That's a joke too - my dad and I worship each other even though he's about as far right as I am left - we just agree to love each other no matter who the president is and what' s/he's doing.
We came to that agreement about twenty-five years ago - it works really well - that why I suggested negotiation. It worked well for us.

Happens often. I've never quite decided whether or not it's intentional. If it isn't, it certainly gives insight to the thought processes.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hope

"I hope that you do leave"
"I look forward to with desire and reasonable confidence that you do leave" because I add nothing to the site

This david is an invitation to leave, just as "i hope that you will attend my party" is always an invitation to come to a party...would be being asked to attend a party.

I have been asked to leave.

Yeah; reversed polarities in my family.
He was a Roosevelt Democrat,
but he said that I convinced him to vote for Barry Goldwater in 1964,
for whom I worked, voted and contributed $$ at the time.





David

I fully understand that English may not be your first language, but that would be being inconsistent, which is not the same thing as lying.

In any case, "necessary" is in the eye of the beholder. So is "offense". I must do what I think is right, not what you think is right. You live your life and I will live mine, and you do not have the right to impose your standards upon my choices except under the extreme cases of the loss of your liberty. We all have the right to self determination, as well as the excerise of free will.

I understand that this concept is greatly confusing to a large number of a2k'ers, but I have hope that the immature are capable of growing up.

I understand your reasoning.
However, the context within which this arose
might have a bearing upon an accurate comprehension of the intent.

For example: if u had THREATENED to leave and our host was responding to that,
its different than if he confronts u and commands u to leave.

U don 't express yourself like any SOCIALIST that I 've ever heard.





David

So, let me say you are just plainly inconsistent..

Even more so when, in the name of inconsistent logic, you persist in uttering nonsense like this:



You are a braggart..

U have a pretty good English vocabulary.

Oh for gods sake. Robert hasn't commanded or even asked anyone to leave! It's not what he does.

Give it a rest, will you?

This conversation has become kind of wanky.