39
   

To stay or not to stay ---That is the question.

 
 
roger
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 03:32 am
@Ceili,
Don't go. I know who you are. We discussed Celtic music on ravensrealm, and you ran an abuzz thread on the same topic, mostly for my education.

Really, I read hundreds of good posts that I don't respond to. I write half dozens myself, and mostly, they just sink out of sight. Well, if you toss enough pebbles into a pond, you are entitled to an occasional ripple. If you never get one, you eventually quit tossing pebbles. I'm nowhere close to that point. I hope you are not, either.
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 05:32 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I've been wondering of late whether or not to stay engaged in A2K.


Apparently, I have been experiencing something very similar to you. I find that I many people have me "marked" as some sort of right wing nut, (which I am definitely NOT). When I make any sort of remark in a political vein, I immediately get the anticipated cutting retort, which I don't appreciate. I find that many members, instead of discussing ideas, lower themselves to character assasinations.

I have noticed that many A2kers apparently have migrated to Facebook. I joined, but find that it bores me silly, so I rarely participate. One thing that I can say for that site, is that it is friendly, a quality that I am finding less and less on A2K.

It is a pity, because for years A2K was a vibrant site, where all sorts of idea could be discussed. I will keep hanging around, a little bit, in the anticipation that I can find a few threads where people discuss issues like grownups.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 05:57 am
@Phoenix32890,
Sadly I agree. I think I find that the need to be "Right" and to "win" supercedes anything else. Whenever Im challenged about anything I start getting ridiculous on purpose. Noone is gonna rob me of opportunities to see something funny and to bask in unintended humor.

I tried Facebook last year and lost interest in a NY minute. Its too sappy for me. (Here I am talking about being challenged and using sarcasm).

Still, as someone said a long time ago "Theres a reason Im probably never gonna leave this site" For example, just this AM I learned the meanings of 2 new words from a person who hates my guts. Seems like I win by default.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:01 am
I too am very tired of seeing pages and pages of people INSISTING that the 'wrong' person ADMIT that they were wrong.

What a boring discussion.

A lot of these types of posts (going on for pages and pages, and often spanning several threads.


Really, I think it's time to use that ignore button, and the rest of us can have civil conversations.
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:04 am
@farmerman,
I know exactly what you mean. Often, if one can filter through the invective, there are a lot of little gems hidden on A2K.

Thinking about all of this, I realized that my interest in A2K started waning after the death of Noddy. We could always count on her rational, reasoned, intelligent approach to complex subjects. I think that some, but not all people understand the immensity of her loss to the site.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:10 am
@Phoenix32890,
I was that way with Timberland (Kevin) and Cav. Cav was one who never got rattled no matter how he was being assaulted, and Kevin was one who would never get assaulted without inflicting critical damage. Both taught me that humor goes way farther than anything on a social line.

I think I learned the etiquette based on ABUZZ , and am still in a bit of a "deprogramming" mode herein. Im trying to be more impish with people who cross the line on my hot topics(like evolution).
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:15 am
@farmerman,
I agree with you about Timberland and Cav. I really loved Cav. There was something so intelligent, incisive, and yet sweet about him.

Quote:
Im trying to be more impish with people who cross the line on my hot topics(like evolution).


I think that being too literal is part of my problem. I often take things unnecessarily seriously.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:15 am
There are a lot of factors here. I don't think A2K has changed really. Granted, I've been here only since 2006, and there are many that have been here much longer. What I can say is that pettiness we can reach is no more deep than it was when I arrived.

Another thought could be that we have began using the site differently with the format change. It used to be that I could kind of isolate/separate my participation in more aggressive topics like politics from more personal topics like spirituality and relationships. I've participated, and seen more overlap since the format changed. There are many rolling discussions that exist parallel to each other in very different threads.

As for the left-right who is being more fair argument, either answer would be a heavily biased generalization. I do sense a certain smugness about the dems here. I don't necessarily think it is unexpected (or maybe even unearned), but present certainly.

It's hard though to make civil conversation when you've got blood in your mouth. If our conversations have become any less intellectual, the blame can't simply fall on the liberals who hold a majority in number, but perhaps the fact that we must address daily debate partners who change the meaning of words and make assertions like supporting Obama is only something a marxist would do.

I'll have to paraphrase littlek here.

"There is a lot of petti talk here. From the right when they are wrong, from the left when they are right."

Finn - If you're feeling beat down on, I'm not surprised. You are met with some venom here. Question though. What are you bringing? Do you believe your posts are so inviting of causal and polite disagreement? I think you are aware your tone is often very confrontational.

I know that I set the pace for what kinds of responses I get. Be the change you want. Perhaps, don't take this so seriously. I'm guilty of doing that at times. It's a tide, and we all contribute to the way it moves. The good and bad behavior doesn't align with our political divisions neatly.

T
K
O
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:26 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
There are a lot of factors here. I don't think A2K has changed really. Granted, I've been here only since 2006, and there are many that have been here much longer. What I can say is that pettiness we can reach is no more deep than it was when I arrived.


I've been around since "the flood". I have seen some major changes in the way people relate to one another. Yeah, there were always hotheads who spewed invective, but I think that I am perceiving the taking of sides, "ours" and "yours".

In politics, I think that anyone who spews any party line, chapter and verse, is a fool. No one but an unthinking automation could possibly agree 100% with a party, or a politician's agenda. In my case, I have some strong positive beliefs with the right on some issues, and the left with others.

I think that some of the political ideas proffered here are not dissimilar to the mindset of fundamentalist religions.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:29 am
@Phoenix32890,
It's not just taking sides.

I think it's rediculous for people to play/post 'gotcha' games. On some of the political threads this can literally go on for dozens of pages spanning across months of time.

I think it's down to 1-3 main offenders (across both isles), and if people would take my lead, and place them on ignore we could likely see this behavior stop (or at least 'we' won't see it).
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:31 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I would regret seeing the site fade away, but I don't see anything out there that might reverse the trend.


Ive been thinking about that and the answer is so obvious that I wonder why noones thought of it?
Phoenix32890
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:32 am
@maporsche,
maporche- I think that is why recently I rarely enter the political threads, although I may skim through them. What I am seeing there is what I characterize as, "intellectual masturbation", and don't want any part of it.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 06:35 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Ive been thinking about that and the answer is so obvious that I wonder why noones thought of it?


Well, I am waiting. If you have a good idea, why not throw it out to the rest of us?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 07:05 am
The political and religious threads have always turned into arguments that run on, sometimes for months, beginning with Abuzz. But I've noticed the religious arguments are now less frequent. I don't think people are more tolerant there, but the challenges are less strident. Some of the people doing the criticising here are no angels. I plead guilty to some of the bad behavior, but I don't go on for a dozen pages when I do argue a topic. Usually, after a few such exchanges, I move on. I've found that if I put on ignore a person that pushes my buttons or bores me to extremes, both of us are happier. It's not necessarily a hostile act to use the ignore function.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 07:09 am
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

Quote:
It's pretty clear that it has become an overwhelmingly left-wing forum,


That's not necessarily a bad thing.
(I think you're mistaken, but -- still -- that would not be such a bad thing.)

And if it were an overwhelmingly right wing forum?


If it were overwhelmingly right wing, it's unlikely I would be coming here too often or participating in any debates. What's to debate with people who are in agreement with each other and disagreement with me?...

I guess that's how he feels.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 07:16 am
@Phoenix32890,
Quote:
Well, I am waiting. If you have a good idea, why not throw it out to the rest of us?


I know, however, I need to get it just right. Watch for it right here!!
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 07:24 am
@edgarblythe,
Ill admit to getting pulled in to heated discussions. I don't like it, and now that I've ignored the posters that I let drag me into those discussions, I hope that my participation in those arguments will stop.

We all need to take responsibility for our own happiness on this board. If someones posting style/content/attitude causes you to stop reading certain types of threads or to consider leaving the board, then it's your responsibility to take action.

The most effective action you can take is to use the sites functionality to ignore them. I wish that simply pleading with these worst offenders was enough to convince them to stop, but it's not. I'm hoping that ignoring them (if many of us do it) will let them recognize the effect their posts are having on the quality of their conversations.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 07:26 am
@maporsche,
And maybe since I won't be reading/responding to those 'other' posters, then I'll be more likely to read posts by Ceili and we can discuss politics/issues.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 07:31 am
I wonder how much of the "perceived" change in discussion on A2K is due not so much to change in people's basic behavior, but to the fact that we're exposed to a wider range of threads with the new format.

With the previous format I would only browse certain categories, so I never saw any trivia posts and I rarely got involved in any political threads. But now I see those things all the time and sometimes get involved.

It's possible that personality of various discussions on A2K hasn't changed that much, but that we're simply exposed to more things.

rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Oct, 2009 07:32 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I've been wondering of late whether or not to stay engaged in A2K.

Stay. What have you got to lose.
0 Replies
 
 

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