The Jews.

Thanks Monger! I know it's bit of a scrolling nightmare, but it's a good read.

I know that my memory isn't all the dependable, but it seems during the past several years, there have been incidence against Jews in France and Germany, and perhaps in Italy. I read the local newspaper every day, and try to keep up on world news - especially those that concerns acts of discrimination.

I know it has been forwarded that we should pack up the Israeli population and move them to the US. I think the writers' primary motive was to keep them safe, and probably stated out of extreme frustration at the neverending ME situation. Just my 2 cents on that. I am guessing the writer chose Jews for relocation, and not Arabs, due to the more recent creation of Israel. I am aware of the reason the Jewish people had to leave in the first place, and I am not sanctioning the opinion--but I think it may be less sinister than some may think. I also extended the benefit of the doubt in that case.

I do hope we can maintain the amicable conversational tone without making issue of personalities.

My growing concern is govt sanctioned anti-Semitic remarks, widely reported in Europe, and the seeming desperation of Jewish people to flee to Israel, where they are still subject to horrible violence... There seems to be no sanctuary for them.

Is the US really devoid of such anti-Semitic violence, or is it not reported? Just for my own personal knowledge. We hear mostly of police violence against blacks, and skinhead-type violence against gays. Do we get accurate (symmetrical) reporting on this type of violence (against minorities)? Opinion or statistics are welcome.

Great appreciation to all participants.

ye110-- Hope to continue dialogue with you. This group seems to be more interested in sharing information and opinion than cracking heads. You are welcome here.

see that's my whole point.
instead of looking at it as valid critisism of israeli policies, it just ends with "that's anti-semitism!"

i didn't mean that jews literally point to the holocaust, though my mother made that comment in reaction to a jewish person on NPR who did. it's just that because of the holocaust, you can't critisize them anymore.



that's from the website, standforisrael.org, which is a project of the IFCJ which is endorsed by lieberman and jerry falwell.

Here's a Google link to "Worldwide antiSemitism." http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/annual-report.html

I see what you're saying, ye110man.

I disagree with the idea that criticism of Israel = anti-Semitism. I have criticised some of Israel's policies, as have many even-handed, unbiased people--Jews and others.

Jews, and the Israeli administrations are humans, and subject to mistake and character faults, just like the rest of us. This idea, to me, is like a smoke screen--instead of analyzing the facts, we are putting Jewishness under a microscope.... MO, anyway.

I think what AU said (and you quoted) is a true statement. If you look at history (you can leave out the Holocaust), Jews are the scapegoat of the world.

CI-- WOW! Thank you so much for the great link. Will be reading in bits.

Sofia
Is your question does anti-Semitism or any other prejudice exist in the US. The answer is of course but far less than that in the European nations. Why? Because the nation is made up of people who they or their ancestors came to this country to escape oppression of all kinds. Remember there is no such thing as an ethnic American at least not yet. I will add one caveat. The previous generations of immigrants for the most part left the "old" country behind them and made every effort to assimilate. That does not unfortunately follow for many of the recent newcomers to these shores. I find that disturbing.

I find it incredibly peculiar that ye110man's site, or the organization, is endorsed by both Lieberman AND Falwell. That's just creepy...just for the record, not all Jews are Israeli, not all of them are pro-Israel, and not all Israelis or Jews are Zionists. We're also not all Masons, Illuminati or Communists either. I understand ye110man's confusion. I looked at the site and see it as thinly-vieled radicalism. However ye110man....there is a huge difference between the rise of true anti-semitism in the world recently, and being critical of Israeli politics. Many Jews are critical of Israel right now, but anti-semitism is very different, and it exists, and it is a problem, like any form of bigotry. You can't really make a blanket statement like "all criticism of Israel ends with 'that's anti-semitism'." That is a gross generalization, and that is the sort of thing that does lead to bigotry. Criticize Israel all you want. When it comes to criticizing Jews, that IS anti-semitism my friend.

Responding to AU--

I will speak honestly, and it can be considered a biased statement, ...

It does seem Muslims are intent on Moslemizing the world. I don't mind them coming in, as everyone else does--but the documentaries I have watched, featuring Muslims, seem to bear this out. Historical studies speak to this Muslim practice and goal, as well.

I feel they don't want to assimilate, but convert us and everyone else.
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Hope I haven't wrecked the thread. I'm not anti-Muslim--but I am anti-overbearing religions forcibly applied.

Every religion has it's radical factions Sofia. The Muslims are just more vocal these days. Half my wife's family are Muslim, the other Catholic, and my family is Jewish. None of us have ever been bothered by it.

I was just reflecting on that site that ye110man posted....not too long ago, I was having a discussion with a friend who is a political journalist, also Jewish, about Lieberman and his radical Zionist leanings. It would actually put him and Falwell on the same page, philisophically.

Maybe the Muslims featured in thse interviews are all of the radical persuasion. I do have a voice in me head that poo-poos my generalized statements.

cav-- Help me out. Is a radical Zionist someone who believes the Jews have a Biblical right to the former Israel?

I agree there are vocal fundamentalists in every religion and many in Islam, but yeah fundamentalism is no more intrinsic to being Muslim than it is to a number of other religions. The many Muslims I've known (limited to a few geographical regions) were never trying to convert the Christians around them, which I wouldn't be able to say in reverse. So yeah it depends on many things.

..Then again, Mohammed wasn't only a spiritual leader but also a military one, so your statements certainly have a certain amount of history to support them, Sofia ...but I'm digressing way too far now.

What ye110man references is hardly a "fringe" issue. I can remember several times in which Israel has quelched criticism of their policies using the Holocaust as a specter. I do not speak of rogue Israelis but foreign ministers and the like.

If certain European countries criticize Israel Isreal's reply is usually a "you don't yet have the right to criticize us" remark.

Germany avoids nearly all criticism of Israel for this reason.

Last I checked, there was still a current Israel in existence. Check out this link, there is lots of info:

http://www.hum.huji.ac.il/Dinur/Internetresources/modern/hz.htm

What is interesting is that in Cairo, both Muslims and Christians have lived side-by-side for hundreds, if not thousands, of years in relative peace and harmony.

Craven
Germany avoids criticism primarily because of the holocaust.

Craven, yes, that is the shadow of radical Zionism, a philosophy that the current government in Israel has adopted. Believe me, there are many Jews around the world who do not agree with Israel's political nonsense. It doesn't reflect well on Jews as a people, but to equate Israel with Jews in general is like saying that Idi Amin and his former regime were representative of most Africans.

I know, a very crucial factor is that any criticism of Israel by Germany would have a resounding rhetorical retaliation and they really shouldn't bother.

If Germans criticize Israel for an act that, say, kills a few Palestinians they upen their butts for a stinging rebuke. So while the criticism might be valid they can't utter it.

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Side note on Zionism. It's a damn loaded word. For it can mean so many things. When an Arab extremist uses it it will be used venemously ("Zionist aggressors") when a Jewish person uses it it will usually be used differently, and when a neutral party uses it it now usually represents the settler types in Israel (since "Zion" has already been established the future work will be toward greater ISreal.

When I think Zionist I think Israeli right wing settlers. When an Arab uses the word they are probably picturing horns, when a Jewsish person uses it maybe they think of it in benevolent terms.

For this reason I avoid the word.

Craven


Discretion is the better part of valour.