24
   

Well Damn! Somebody finally SAID IT!!

 
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 10:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
So you think that it SHOULD be tolerated? Or ignored? Swept under the rug? Or we should all pretend it never happened at all?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 10:42 pm
@eoe,
this is politics, most of the time to get what you want you must work behind the scenes to make it happen. Berating Wilson will do nothing productive. The blacks on the hill are determined that this must be about race, and they want to protect their guy, and all they think that they can do is get a disapproval on the record. First of all there is no evidence that this as about race, secondly the degradation of decorum on the hill has been going on for a long time and at some point somebody should do something about it so non productive symbolic votes such as this is clutter that diminishes the real work that should be done. thirdly, the last thing most of us Americans want to see is more of this partisan bull ****. How about both sides work together once in awhile, and thus show us that they are not one trick ponies, that they have the capacity to care about something other than their parties fortunes?

I happen to think that Obama is a pretty smart guy, he needs to shut these knuckle heads in the black caucus down. Or failing that publicly thank them for their support but tell America that he is a big boy and does not need their help to deal with Wilson and his ilk.
eoe
 
  3  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 11:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Oh. I see. Shut the Black caucus down but allow Wilson and his cronies to publicly and vocally disrespect him and the office he holds. How progressive.

And what kind of evidence would you require to acknowledge that this is about race? Perhaps Mr. Obama swinging lifeless from a tree? Maybe his wife and children tarred and feathered?

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's not a cow. It's a damn duck. Pretending not to see the ugliness of racism when it's staring you in the face doesn't make it go away.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 11:53 pm
@eoe,
eoe - those signs would only be racist if skinheads were holding them.
Don't you understand? It's only really about race when a white person says and agrees it's about race....

(I'm being extremely sarcastic here - I know you'll understand that - I just want to make sure everyone else does).

This **** is racist. I understand we've progressed, and I'm happier than you can know about the progress we've made as a people and country in this department, but this **** is racist.
I don't know what the smartest, most logical and ultimately productive thing to do about it is.
I admit, I react to it on a viscerally emotional level- which I acknowledge is probably not the smartest or most productive way to react to achieve anything.
And I have enough faith in Obama to believe he's dealt with it enough of it in his life that he'll have insight into dealing with it that I don't have- but I'll tell you what I would do if I were standing at a rally with that woman who held the 'lyin' African' sign.
I'd make my own sign that had an arrow pointing to her that said, 'You're a sad and hateful racist. I hope you're not a mother- teaching your children to denigrate, belittle and dehumanize others'- and I'd go stand next to her.
I'd call a spade a spade.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 12:10 am
@aidan,
And Hawkeye - the President needs to show a strong, firm and forceful persona.
This is to every American citizens' advantage.
And yes, people around the world knew that a good part of the American people and governmental employees had no respect for George W. Bush, but they also knew he was somewhat of an impetuous reactionary who was easily led and hardly hesitated before he started bombing if he didn't like something.
Obama doesn't give that impression. He presents as thoughtful, measured and imminently reasonable.
All the rest of the world will see when they read of this stuff and see no reaction is, 'Here's a man who doesn't have the most basic respect of some of his people and governmental employees and he won't do anything about it.
Maybe he won't do anything if we decide to....'
They'll see the crack and decide it's an opportune time to create a chasm.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 12:23 am
@eoe,
Quote:
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's not a cow. It's a damn duck. Pretending not to see the ugliness of racism when it's staring you in the face doesn't make it go away.


so let me get this right.......every time that you are sure that you are being treated substandard because you don't have a dick do you throw a little (or large) hissy fit about your situation, and give a lesson on feminism? If so how well does that generally work for you? because all the women who advance women's rights effectively that I know about go about it in a different way
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 01:09 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
so let me get this right.......every time that you are sure that you are being treated substandard because you don't have a dick do you throw a little (or large) hissy fit about your situation, and give a lesson on feminism? If so how well does that generally work for you? because all the women who advance women's rights effectively that I know about go about it in a different way

Quote:
American women were formally granted the right to vote August 18, 1920 as a result of the 19th amendment to the United States Constitution, which proclaimed: “The right of citizens in the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.” The 36 states needed for ratification had done so by March 22, 1920; all states ratified the amendment except traditional southern states, Vermont, and [believe it or not] Connecticut.

Women’s suffrage was a heated battle nationwide in the first two decades of the 20th century. Born in New York in 1848, the suffragette movement quickly moved west. Women filed lawsuits, chained themselves to fences, were arrested, and spent time in jail; a few died.

I guess after the initial sufferagists suffered - those in future generations had it easier- all we have to do is throw a hissy fit - but we can STILL VOTE!!!
Thank god those ladies didn't stand around and politely wait for the collective to confer with each other and come to their reasoned conlusion.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 06:24 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

so let me get this right.......every time that you are sure that you are being treated substandard because you don't have a dick do you throw a little (or large) hissy fit about your situation, and give a lesson on feminism?

Damn right. And would you like to know why? Because, like raising a rebellious child, if you allow them the run of the house and don't show them"under no uncertain terms" who's in control, soon they will lose all respect for you, their friends will not respect you, their teachers will not respect you and you won't respect yourself. Fighting for yourself, your rights and your dignity as a human being is a bad thing??? A stupid thing? Please. Only a privileged and pampered White male could hold such a foolish notion.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 06:32 am
Wilson's statement was not racist. To claim that it was and to argue that it was is to believe something that has not even a glimmer of evidence of truth.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 06:38 am
I think Rapist Boy . . . er . . . excuse me . . . Hawkeye, has a point. If all you darkies and wimmins would learn your place, and stay in it, most of society's problems would just go away. Oh, and that goes for all you fagg . . . er . . . gay boys, too.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 06:50 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
so let me get this right.......every time that you are sure that you are being treated substandard because you don't have a dick do you throw a little (or large) hissy fit about your situation, and give a lesson on feminism? If so how well does that generally work for you? because all the women who advance women's rights effectively that I know about go about it in a different way

She's not the one throwing a hissy fit, here. First you whine about people calling out racist behavior, now you're whining about women's rights.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 08:15 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
Wilson's statement was not racist. To claim that it was and to argue that it was is to believe something that has not even a glimmer of evidence of truth.


So then, why is the White Caucus going to object to his censure after he clearly broke House rules?
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 08:31 am
@ebrown p,
Link?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 04:47 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
So then, why is the White Caucus going to object to his censure after he clearly broke House rules?


Do you have a link to the "white caucus" website, or is it only in your imagination?
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 04:50 pm
@mysteryman,
"White Caucus" is a code word. It means "You are a racist".

"You lie" is another code word with the same meaning.

Defending a Member of Congress who tells his President "You lie" means you are a racist.

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 05:08 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

"White Caucus" is a code word. It means "You are a racist".

"You lie" is another code word with the same meaning.

Defending a Member of Congress who tells his President "You lie" means you are a racist.




You got to be a member of the sekrit liberals club to know who the racists really are.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 05:10 pm
Quote:
The prohibition on attacking the president’s integrity dates back to Thomas Jefferson’s Manual of Parliamentary Practice for the Use of the Senate of the United States, which he wrote in 1801. In 1909, the House made his proscriptions the explicit rules of decorum, and has put abridgements of his manual in a pamphlet titled, “Constitution, Jefferson's Manual, and Rules of the House of Representatives.”

It stipulates that: “Personal abuse, innuendo, or ridicule of the president, is not permitted. Under this standard it is not in order to call the president, or a presumptive major-party nominee for president, a ‘liar’ or accuse him of ‘lying.’ Indeed, any suggestion of mendacity is out of order.”

If Wilson has any doubts about the prohibition, he needs only goes back to June 6, 1996, when his current Republican colleague in the South Carolina delegation, Rep. Bob Inglis, was holding the gavel.

“The chair admonishes members not to refer to the president in terms personally offensive,” Inglis told the House that day.

Inglis has urged Wilson to apologize for his outburst.


GOP paved way for Wilson reprimand

Quote:

If Rep. Joe Wilson is finding parliamentary procedure to be a bit of a nuisance in the wake of his “you lie” attack on President Barack Obama, he has his Republican forbearers to thank.

On June 26, 1985, Rep. Robert Walker " a Pennsylvania Republican who beat the drum for decorum throughout his 20 years in the House " took issue with Rep. James Traficant for saying that then-President Ronald Reagan had deceived the senior citizens of the United States.

“Is it not a violation of the rules of the House to question the motives of the president and to refer to him as being someone who lies?” Walker asked on the floor.

“The gentleman is correct,” agreed then-Speaker Tip O’Neill . “It is not proper.”

O’Neill ordered that Traficant’s offending remarks be stricken from the record and directed the congressman " subsequently convicted on federal corruption charges " to “revise his remarks.”

Traficant’s toupee wasn’t Walker’s only scalp.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 05:56 pm
@edgarblythe,
Not to say the outburst wasn't inappropriate. . . .
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 06:38 pm
Quote:
At Obama's speech to Congress on health care, Rep. Wilson embarrassed himself and the party. But he did so by tapping into a long-standing tradition. This is the uglier side of our democracy.

What distinguishes the Wilson incident is the context. Today, we have a 24-hour instantaneous, sound-bite media that is obsessed with these kinds of stories rather than the substantive issues. Legislators know that these kinds of incidents will surely garner media attention. So if a politician wants to deflect attention from his opponent, this is an effective course of action.

The idea that we will ever achieve total civility in our democratic politics is a myth. The real question is whether our party leaders and the media will continue to focus on the nastier aspects of our political system or if they will give more attention to the substantive debates that other members of both parties want to have.

This summer it unfortunately seems as if the balance tipped toward the yellers. With so many major challenges facing the nation, let's hope our leaders refocus on more honorable political traditions.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/14/zelizer.joe.wilson/index.html?section=cnn_latest
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 06:47 pm
the wife speaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfVIaP4SFGc&feature=player_embedded#t=18

CBS reporting on the racism charge
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5313930n
 

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