Why is sexual abuse of boys not taken seriously

@Setanta,

Set, I think your point about the intesity/passion/irrationality/immaturity of adolecent "love" is really important. It is a HUGE force.

I'm going to ponder that a bit.

I'm trying to remember myself at that age in an honest light. When I was 16/17 I entered the first long term, serious, sexual, relationship with a boy/man. He was considerably older than me.

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I'm not sure anyone else has mentioned it, and I'm trying to phrase this sensitively, but... there are issues of physical invasion far more common and likely in one direction than the other. Presumably why abuse of boys by men (rather than women) is taken just as seriously as abuse of girls by men is.

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@Eorl,

Yes, Earl. I agree. But I think that assumption is based more on our own sexuality than the sexuality of someone likely to offend.

Women can certainly invade a man's body if they are so motivated.

And, trying for sensitive phrasing too, why does "invasion" seem to equal "penetration" in the common mind-set?

When I asked this question I wasn't at all sure where it would go, sometimes these types of questions can really go sideways. The number of men who responded to this subject is amazing (and I don't at all mean to discount the responses of the women here) and wonderful.

I talk to Mr. B about this stuff, this boy stuff, but he's just one person with one person's experience.

I have recieved a real education here on this thread by exploring an idea that started off like jelly in my head.

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It has been mentioned a couple of times on this thread that young people can be placed on some sort of sexual offender list for consensual sex with a person only a year or so younger than they are.

Is this a general thing in the US, or is it a state by state thing?

If the latter, does anyone know if this could happen in many states?

Is this list public?

That seems to me an appalling and very surprising thing.

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@dlowan,

http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/register.htm

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@dlowan,

Quote:

That seems to me an appalling and very surprising thing.

as bad as things are now, there is a continual push to move even further into criminalizing sex. We have already had cases where a neighbor call the cops because they think that the woman is being abused, the woman(wife) tells the cops that it is consensual, the cops make the call that she might be lieing to cover and that this might be domestic violence, arrest the guy(husband) under the zero tolerance/mandatory arrest laws, the DA charges, and the judge convicts on the grounds that coercion was used and thus the woman never legally consented, it was abuse/rape. The guy does some time, and when he gets out there is a no contact order in place, the two are not allowed to be with in 50 feet of each other, on the grounds that it is feared that the wife will be revictimized by her husband. It is hoped that she will follow advice and divorce her husband. All along the woman tells everyone who will listen that she wanted what they did, that her husband did nothing wrong. OH, and lets not forget that the husband for ever after will be a registered sexual offender, with all of the normal problems that come that designation re finding a place to live, and finding some way to make enough money to live.

Granted that this has not happened often, yet, but that this process even once can get all the way to conviction and no contact order tells me that it is time to yell "STOP THE INSANITY!"

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@Eorl,

Eorl wrote:

I'm not sure anyone else has mentioned it, and I'm trying to phrase this sensitively, but... there are issues of physical invasion far more common and likely in one direction than the other. Presumably why abuse of boys by men (rather than women) is taken just as seriously as abuse of girls by men is.

I alluded to the greater tendency for physical harm earlier, but I'm not convinced that it's even the main factor. Even if it were abuse of boys by men that did not penetrate the child (use your imagination so I don't have to spell it out) it is taken as seriously. I think there's more to it that really drives the difference, and I wonder if it has a more to do with how most males desired sex with any woman during adolescence and project that desire onto the situation.

Speaking of which, I've always taken it as common sense that teenage girls aren't as horny as teenage boys on average, anyone know of any studies on this that can either confirm it or disabuse me of the notion?

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@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

It has been mentioned a couple of times on this thread that young people can be placed on some sort of sexual offender list for consensual sex with a person only a year or so younger than they are.

Is this a general thing in the US, or is it a state by state thing?

It's a state by state thing. Here's the case I referenced, and here is another odd one.

Quote:

If the latter, does anyone know if this could happen in many states?

Yes. See here: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/07/sexting.busts/index.html

Quote:

In many states, like Florida, if a person is convicted of a crime against children, it automatically triggers registration to the sex offender registry. Thirty-eight states include juvenile sex offenders in their sex offender registries. Alaska, Florida and Maine will register juveniles only if they are tried as adults. Indiana registers juveniles age 14 and older. South Dakota registers juveniles age 15 and older. Most states allow public access to sex offender registries via the Internet and anyone with a computer can locate registered sex offenders in their neighborhoods.

Quote:

Is this list public?

Most of the time.

Quote:

That seems to me an appalling and very surprising thing.

It really is, and it's why I think there are legitimate qualms with current American law.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

as bad as things are now, there is a continual push to move even further into criminalizing sex.

Like what? The legal developments I have followed are moving the other way, and seeking to redress these flaws. Can you point out exactly what laws you are talking about that are changing in the direction you claim they are?

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@Robert Gentel,

Wow!

You made me look up our law.

We have sex offender lists...but they are not public, they are restricted to law enforcement folk, and require registered offenders to report to police on their address, car registration and such. Police keep an eye on them, and they have to report to police regularly, or to Parole staff if they are on parole.

Police access them, and the information can be divulged only under strict criteria...eg people working with children have to have police checks, which include accessing the child sexual offender register.

Information on known paedophiles is shared with other governments, and people on the register have been refused entry to countries like Thailand etc.

As far as i can see, the offence has to be serious enough to warrant a prison sentence, or persistent.

It looks as though someone having consensual sex with a minor MIGHT end up on it, even if it was consensual sex and the participants were close in age, IF they received a sentence.

I'll be interested to follow up when I have time about whether this happens much.

I am not aware of many such folk being charged....but I could be wrong.

Minors might end up on it if they commit a very serious offence, or a number of offences.

Generally, for a first offence, unless it was very serious, minors pleading guilty would end up in a restorative justice session, and normally agree to attend therapy. They don't end up on the list if this is the outcome.

Did I imagine reading somewhere that children under 12 could actually appear on such a list?

I cna recall some drama about a little kid who pinched his teacher's bottom going on such a list? Or perhaps it was police being called or somesuch.

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@Robert Gentel,

what are you talking about?? The mandatory arrest and mandatory reporting laws have been multiplying........the movement to void consent and then make criminals out of the partners who believed that they operated under mutual consent has been getting worse not better. ....the new push to criminal teens for sexting......the new push to punish guys who use prostitutes.....do you remember hearing about teens getting convicted of stat rape ten years ago??-I don't .....the duke case....the Kobe case.....the tila tequela case

Quote:

SAN DIEGO (AP) " San Diego Chargers star outside linebacker Shawne Merriman was arrested Sunday and accused of choking and restraining his girlfriend, reality TV star Tila Tequila, as she tried to leave his suburban home.

Tequila, 27, signed a citizen's arrest warrant, charging Merriman with battery and false imprisonment, San Diego County Sheriff's Lt. Gary Steadman said.

Both are felonies.

Deputies responded about 3:45 a.m. to Merriman's house in Poway, north of San Diego, after a woman called to say she was choked by the player and thrown to the ground when she tried to leave, Sheriff's Department spokesman Jan Caldwell said at a news conference.

Merriman's attorney, Todd Macaluso, disputed Tequila's story and said he's confident Merriman won't be charged by the District Attorney's Office.

"There was absolutely no wrongdoing on the part of Mr. Merriman," Macaluso told The Associated Press by phone. "He essentially was doing what was appropriate under the circumstances in trying to protect the safety of Miss Tequila. There were numerous eyewitnesses that will support his version of the events that transpired at his home."

Merriman, 25, was taken into custody and booked into the central jail at about 8:30 a.m. He was released shortly after 11 a.m.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/10031914/Exclusive:-Merriman-says-he-didn&

where we have a guy being arrested for what by all appearances is him trying to keep his out of control bitch of a girlfriend from hurting herself...no doubt because of manditory arrest laws.

STOP!

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

what are you talking about??

The "Romeo and Juliet" law is an example. You didn't answer my question by ranting about the news. What changes in law are you talking about, specifically? I've not disputed what you said, I'm just curious if you are referencing actual legal changes when you say things are changing in a particular direction or if this is a more vaguely sourced claim.

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@Robert Gentel,

You know how the law works right???there is the writing of law, the on going interpretation of the law, the judgement calls of the police/da/judge about whether to use a particular law ....all of it working together to produce the end result. In the case of sex law increasingly the miscarriage of justice. The news of the day is completely relevant, and knowledge of repeated failures of justice is all a citizen needs to justify calls for reform. I am not a legal professional, I neither know nor need to know the law intimately, or changes in the law.

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Quote:

. . . or if this is a more vaguely sourced claim.

This is what he is up to. See also his amorphous claim above about marital rape. I am not surprised that he has tried to work that in. This joker is long on phony indignation, and short on actual evidence. The kinds of statistics you hunted down begin to give a picture of how a system works. This clown, though, will just make vague allegations, or trot one or two examples for an anecdotal case.

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@hawkeye10,

A classic case of he-said she-said, and since when does a linebacker have to choke a tiny woman in order to prevent her from hurting herself?

You continue to be an idiot.

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@hawkeye10,

Do you actually have a case to cite? Judging from your willingness to always take the male's side in such disputes, I do not trust you to accurately represent the facts.

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@DrewDad,

You don't know me, so you should not trust me. You should however do your own ******* research. But since you seem to be a lazy SOB here is a work-up on mandatory arrest and no-drop policies to get you started on your education:
http://www.bc.edu/schools/law/lawreviews/meta-elements/journals/bctwj/23_1/04_TXT.htm

I have now gone the extra mile to help you out, you are on your own now.

Set is another story, he does know his way around the internet. His problem is that he is an all around asshole.

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@DrewDad,

Quote:

Re: hawkeye10 (Post 3752387)
A classic case of he-said she-said, and since when does a linebacker have to choke a tiny woman in order to prevent her from hurting herself?

You continue to be an idiot.

I'll second that.

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Hawkeye wrote:

Besides, my language is almost always highly civil, unlike some around here.

Hawkeye wrote:

You should however do your own ******* research. But since you seem to be a lazy SOB ...

Set is another story, he does know his way around the internet. His problem is that he is an all around asshole.

What people say and what people do...

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@Merry Andrew,

Quote:

I'll second that.

You have yet to demonstrate even a slight understanding of the subject matter, your opinion is worth nothing. My view on these things is well with-in the scope of the raging ongoing debate about how to deal with sex and force issues with in intimate relationships. My views tend to be minority views, but are well supported by me and like minded individuals.

This debate has till now largely taken place in the survivor, police and feminist communities, and I come from the survivor community. My aim is to broaden the debate by bringing it to a2k.

You, Set a Drew seem to have an irrational personal problem with my argument, likely you have some unexamined personal investment in these issues which you transfer subconsciously upon me in the form of hate. I ask that you attempt to rise above your defense mechanisms and deal with the subject rather than you continuing a long pattern of venting your anger towards the messenger..... alternatively shut up.

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Why is sexual abuse of boys not taken seriously

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