Why is sexual abuse of boys not taken seriously

@Robert Gentel,

Ok, Robert.

But please note that David's constant claims to self respectability doesn't add to the debate either.

And my jabs at David have precisely the purpose that he let me follow this debate I find highly interesting, without his sidetracking comments.

1 Reply

@Francis,

Francis wrote:

But please note that David's constant claims to self respectability doesn't add to the debate either.

Perhaps, but even if you think so then note that questioning his respectability has the predictable consequence of inducing such a claim.

In any case, I don't want to perpetuate this line of the discussion myself any further so I'll shut up about this.

0 Replies

It is not clear to me
whether it is demanded of me
that I declare myself to be a non-respectable person.

However, in deference to the integrity of this thread,
I will disregard the slight.

David

1 Reply

This is why we should make the discussions have a threaded view some day, we'd all be able to more easily pursue the side discussions that we are interested in without bothering others.

And back to the topic I go, I promise...

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

May I know what "a threaded view" is ?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Replies are kept separate under whatever post it is in reply to. Basically instead of having all replies to a topic in chronological order they are separated into conversations.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

It is not clear to me
whether it is demanded of me
that I declare myself to be a non-respectable person.

\

1 Reply

@dlowan,

This is doubtless a terrible thing to do, but this has been a very heavy conversation.

When I am teaching about problematic sexual behaviour in kids, I like to lighten things up with a few cartoons.

Here are a couple of them.

I hope nobody is offended.

These are laughing at normal sexual behaviour in kids:

http://www.goofbutton.com/images/wd_ssc%20(6).jpg

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/vsh0482l.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9B6Jxv_c8ls/Ra7ECp7drlI/AAAAAAAAAX0/0_NP6xotqRk/s400/YouAlreadyBrokeYours.jpg

1 Reply

@dlowan,

The curiosity and comparing of equipment reminds me of one I saw years ago.

It was a boy saying to a girl "Look what I have that you don't have!" and the girl replies "My mom said that with one of these I can have all of those that I want!"

2 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

An oldie and a goody.

0 Replies

Just wanted to say that I've been reading with interest and have especially appreciated Dlowan's and Robert's posts.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

The curiosity and comparing of equipment reminds me of one I saw years ago.

It was a boy saying to a girl "Look what I have that you don't have!"
and the girl replies "My mom said that with one of these
I can have all of those that I want!"

That 's a clever joke, whose subject matter gives rise
to consideration of a related point, which may be on topic,
if we give that a liberal interpretation:
I am not a sociologist; I have not studied psychology as much
as it deserves to be studied, but in the back of my mind,
over the years, I have wondered how much sexually related crime
has resulted from our societally-based phobia of human nudity,
with particular phobic focus upon the genitalia. This is either
women relating to boys, or otherwise.

I wonder how much of the mental phenomena tangentially expressed
in the joke is at the root of sexually-based crime.

Are primitive societies who have not yet learned the wearing
of clothes beset with similar crimes of sexual intrusion?

Of this, I know not.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Are primitive societies who have not yet learned the wearing
of clothes beset with similar crimes of sexual intrusion?

Primitive and secluded societies often have much greater problems with it, whether or not they wear clothes.

One such example is the Pitcairn Islands, the descents of the Bounty mutiners and the Tahitians they took. They have had long-standing problems with sexual abuse, which came to a head in the 2004 sexual assault trial.

Quote:

"I noticed worrying signs such as inexplicable mood swings," he said. "It took me three months to realise they were being abused." Tosen tried to bring the matter before the Island Council (the legislative body which doubles as the island's court), but was rebuffed, with one Councillor telling him, '"Look, the age of consent has always been twelve and it doesn't hurt them."[4]

A study of island records confirmed anecdotal evidence that most girls had their first child between the ages of 12 and 15. "I think the girls were conditioned to accept that it was a man's world and once they turned 12, they were eligible," Tosen said. Mothers and grandmothers were resigned to the situation, telling him that their own childhood experience had been the same; they regarded it as just a part of life on Pitcairn. One grandmother wondered what all the fuss was about. Tosen was convinced, however, that the experience was very damaging to the girls. "They can't settle or form solid relationships. They did suffer, no doubt about it," he said emphatically.[4]

0 Replies

Robert wrote:

One such example is the Pitcairn Islands, the descents of the Bounty mutiners and the Tahitians they took.

I don't think it's the best example of primitive society.

I was following this case at the time of the trial and it came to mind that the original puritanism and its subsequent derives could have been transmitted through generations..

However, I agree that primitive societies have many sexual issues, independently of what they wear..

1 Reply

@Francis,

Quote:

However, I agree that primitive societies have many sexual issues, independently of what they wear

Advanced societies have many sexual issues, that is for sure. I think that it is fair to say that in general primitive societies tend to have much less repression of natural sexuality than we would tolerate. Primitive societies tend to work out sexual problems more forthrightly than advanced societies, they don't let them build up into massive sexual dysfunction as we do.

A society with as much sexual abuse and sexual acting out as we have is not in a position to feel superior over primitive societies.

1 Reply

Watch the South Park episode: "Miss Teacher Bangs a Boy"

0 Replies

I'm not at all sure about the "sexual problems" in so-called "primitive" societies. When we say that these societies and cultures all have problems of a sexual nature, we are applying our western, industrialized society yardstick to a pre-industrial culture. If they don't see child marriage as a "problem" then it's a problem only for us, as observers, not for them.

2 Replies

@Merry Andrew,

,

Quote:

If they don't see child marriage as a "problem" then it's a problem only for us, as observers, not for them.

True, and not just for primitive which is part of what makes the Pitcairn Islands prosecutions so abusive. It is only by fluke that British Law has authority there, the Brits should have been civilized enough to leave well enough alone....there was no problem to be solved.

Likewise, if a man and wife are doing BDSM and both do not feel that abuse is taking place the collective has no right to say otherwise, send the police, and throw one of them in jail and get the other one "help". It is up to the ones who are participating, the ones who are effected, to decide what it abuse and what is not. Modern Western societies would have grounds to make an exception for children and teens, though this is by no means a universal position in history, and the age of 18 years is preposterous. 15, or maybe 16 is all that can be reasonably be justified.

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

If they don't see child marriage as a "problem" then it's a problem only for us, as observers, not for them.

Who's "they"? The guys who were having sex with the 12-year-olds? The mothers who condoned it?

Does the 15-year-old who had enough of a problem to bring charges of rape have a say in determining whether it was a problem?

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

It is only by fluke that British Law has authority there, the Brits should have been civilized enough to leave well enough alone....there was no problem to be solved.

Tell that to the 15-year-old victim who brought rape charges. Tell her she had no "problem".

Quote:

Likewise, if a man and wife are doing BDSM and both do not feel that abuse is taking place the collective has no right to say otherwise, send the police, and throw one of them in jail and get the other one "help".

There is no "likewise" here, these are not moral equivalents because in the first example the children can't give informed consent while in the second they can.

Quote:

It is up to the ones who are participating, the ones who are effected, to decide what it abuse and what is not.

Nonsense. They had nobody to do so and showed no willingness to do so. They said they didn't want to know who did what because they didn't want to have to look them in the face knowing what they did, they said that nobody should be punished because they required their manpower to keep the community running.

They had no legitimate justice system to deal with it, the appeals were going to the very abusers to pass judgment on and there was no willingness in their small community to face their sexual problem.

Incidentally hawkeye, when are you going to have the courage to answer my simple questions to you? Here they are again:

Do you desire to have sex with minors?
Do you think that there should be no line?
Do you think the current lines are incorrectly placed? (if so where do you advocate putting the line?)

You just make vague innuendo, when are you going to articulate an actual position?

2 Replies

Why is sexual abuse of boys not taken seriously

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know