Discussion On Becoming A Democrat

My, how this thread has drifted!

Rex, I've always found it a bit strange that a gay man would be a platform-slinging Republican but I'm sure you aren't alone in that. In fact, I know you aren't because I know another gay platform-slinging Republican who thinks that fiscal conservatism is more important than social liberalism. So be it... I get that, but what I don't get is how someone can jump from a staunch Republican to a (supposedly) staunch Democrat on an epiphany. Maybe I just don't believe in epiphanies all that much but there IS a middle ground (witness engineer's perspective above).

The current disconnect to the Republican party with many fiscal conservatives is that the Party has become more hard-lined with it's social issues than it's fiscal issues and groups like the blue dog Dems are giving those who previously aligned themselves with the Republicans a home within the Democratic party. But... I still don't understand the need to feel affiliated to a political party. Fortunately, I've never lived in a state that requires one to declare a party affiliation prior to voting, only to pick one ballot during primary elections. Is there a warm and fuzzy feeling of "belonging" when one joins a party?

When you are ready, that is going to be some story! Hopefully it involves a passionate love affair, a raging political argument and a frightful situation with serious villains that works out in the end. We'll buy the electronic beers when the time comes.

Yes all of that and more... it involves a very romantic love, a compelling political argument and the villainous conservative news media, and of course my gullible nature to accept and practice error on face value. The happy ending is my apparent return to a2k as a dem.

It is amazing how a little thought starts out as a tiny seed and grows into a giant rage that only love can resolve.

Palabras que tocan mi corazón
Como mil canciones de amor
Palabras como pájaros volar
Sentimiento de que es cierto
Te amo

RexRed 2009

Your challenge was to find a post where you said you hated yourself, not to find the post where you said that you hated yourself but not one where you were expressing remorse because you had just given your partner some venereal diseases and so on and so forth. I did that. I rest my case: you lose.


Sure, use whatever rationale that gets you through the day.

HOMOPHOBIA
Literally an uncontrollable fear of homosexuals and of homosexuality, but the term is generally used for a negative and contemptuous attitude to same-sex sexual relationships and to those participate in those relationships.

I assume you found only one reference of self hate in a millions some odd words Joe.

I am youthful, I'm attractive (I have many thousands of fans on the internet), I am intelligent (usually), well educated (which doesn't always help), I have enough prosperity to get by more than generality, I am in the best of heath (no diseases), and I am physically fit. What's there to hate... I am comfortable with my sexuality (I guess that is why some call it a preference). I had great parents who showed love and goodness toward me (their gay son) to the best of their ability.

In other words I love being me. I wouldn't trade my life for any other life on this earth. I am special and unique in my own way. I see around me others much less fortunate than me and if i were to hate myself, well, then it would only be misdirected self pity. I have been discriminated against for being gay MANY TIMES.

I was a close friends with Charlie Howard, the boy that was thrown into the river and drown in Bangor Maine for being gay. In fact i might have been with Charlie the night he was attacked had my boyfriend at the time not told me to stop hanging around Charley because he was too effeminate.

I saw Charley down at the town square hours before he was murdered and I walked the other way to avoid him... Had I not been warned by my boyfriend I may have actually saved Charley or possibly even met with the same fate. Four young men beat Charley up and tossed him over a cement wall into the Penobscot river and he drown...

So do I hate myself, no... I hate injustice and cruelty. I loved Charley...
But he is gone now and his often blatant and unrestrained words and opinions are gone with him.

I remember once I was walking with Charley and he walked up to this pretty young woman and said, "Girl, I love the dress but go home and wash those shoes!"... Yes Charley was a sort of menace but he was still a human being with compassion and love more often than not... But his life was cut short by haters who took offense to his sometimes not so delicate and course demeanor.

So the only form of hate I have in this life is to those who perpetuate and direct these types of hatred toward those appearing less fortunate them themselves. Charlie was a mess but he did not deserve that kind of fate. I was never Charlies lover, Charlie was not my type, but I did love him as a dear friend. Charlie did leave behind a lover to mourn his untimely passing... Charlies lover was a gay man who was a wood carver. Charlies death devastated his life.

Charlie and I used to drink together in bars and as i said I was hanging around with him on nearly a daily basis until my boyfriend asked me to refrain from being his friend and I for some reason obeyed. But that is all gone now. I am sorry I wasn't there for you Charlie. Perhaps i was not meant to be. Let this be a lesson to all who know gay people. If I were to hate myself for being gay I would be doing a disservice to the memory of Charlie. So Joe don't go there or you might find a reason to hate yourself as the boys who did time for taking Charlies life without even a thought.

My conscience is clean, I had no idea what kind of fate was going to befall Charlie that night. In retrospect I deserted Charlie... Never again will a leave the side of a gay friend because they are effeminate. I obeyed my boyfriend because i loved him. That boyfriend is now an x-boyfriend and Charlie is gone. Water under the bridge... You are still loved and missed my friend 20 years later... Rest in peace Charlie Howard...

And rest secure in the knowledge that the kind of intolerant, hate-filled politics that you (used to) espouse helped to create the climate in which it was considered acceptable by some people to commit acts of violence against your too-swishy-to-be-seen-with pal Charlie and others like him. Yeah, I suppose I was wrong to say that you were self-hating. It sounds to me like you're pretty pleased with yourself.

Fine group of people you have associated with here Rex...

What about your hate filled politics? Am I not entitled to my honest opinion too? Shall I go and post a few of your own nasty choice words and throw them in your face? Besides many of the observations that i had before the election were and still are valid and not have been addressed by Obama. I have just chosen to let these reservations slide and give the man a chance. I don't have friends like ACORN, Resko, Ayers and Wright...

You don't mind me tossing your own HATE FILLED POLITICS up in your face do you? I am sure you had nothing but praise for G W Bush, huh? I can find your political hate right in this thread too while I have been offering an olive branch... So who is the better person? You still have not stolen my sunshine you have just demonstrated you are more pathetic than I originally thought.

How many "too-swishy-to-be-seen-with" pals do you have ? So who is the intolerant one? One of my best friend is pre op transsexual... I have had many drag queen/lesbian/and gay friends very dear to my heart just as Charlie was... how many do you have?

I am ordained clergy because I, like many others, thought the bible was the way to spiritual fulfillment but I guess in your book gays are undeserving of spiritual peace with the creator... I have tried to understand both sides of life but it seems you want to go on with your narrow minded views and side with murders...

It was my boy friend who insinuated Charlie was "too-swishy-to-be-seen-with" (you seem to see comedy in this while I find your comedy repulsive) I find nothing even remotely humorous about Charlie being brutally murdered.

My boy friend the night before hit me with the "please stay away from Charlie" line and the next day I had to have time to think it over. I certainly did not think he was going to be murdered that night. How many transsexuals are your closest friends? Again Joe, you are pathetic and maybe you should seek help for your, err, PROBLEM...

You're free to hold up my political positions to scrutiny -- I have nothing to be ashamed of. After all, I wasn't the one who was giving aid and comfort to the bigots and agents of intolerance who go around pushing your swishy friends off bridges.


And there we have it. I didn't think this particular leopard had changed its spots.


None. Unlike you, I wouldn't abandon a friend just because someone else thought he was too effeminate.

Yes, I just wish I was not so late in coming to that conclusion myself... I am finding the conservative news delayed my conversion and even today if I watch too much of it, it can incite issues that I am better off leaving alone. It is not that I agree with them but I just need to scratch the surface a bit to find these issues have been inflated to instill negative reactions. I think I have a handle on it now.

Some of you may find I am more liberal than you even care to be. I am an agnostic now (Which would make Frank Aspia say, "I told you so..." Many times actually.).

My new boyfriend is Latino and black mixed who was born in Puerto Rico and raised in the states. My beautiful wise Latino, I love him so very much.

So that is the love relationship that was the catalyst for my conversion too. Although the details will be quite surprising and enlightening on how this all unfolded. We have been dating for a year. We have never had a quarrel or fight in all that time. He has given me space to grow and has gone along with many of my own antics until I saw the error in them.

I will publish more of this story when I am ready.

Get help Joe...

Or maybe you don't make friends with them in the first place or at least not that you admit, then you don't have to abandon them later, huh? So how many effeminate friends do you have Joe? And I did not abandon Charlie... though in hind sight it seemed that way. How was I supposed to know what was going to happen? I just decided to consider what my boyfriend had asked for a night. Besides we had plans to spend the night alone together. The next day Charlie was dead. How is that abandoning him? Joe, you remind me of this guy...


Larry Craig an opponent against gays, writing anti gay legislation while he was doing tricks in the airport men's room.. You call yourself a liberal but attack me for being liberal... Is there much difference between you Joe and Mr. Craig?

Not once have you stated to me that is you are gay or even bi. But here you are attacking me, a person who has been openly gay all of their life. I was beat up for it all though grammar and high school. Even when I was studying to be a minister the religion which I attended was well aware that I was openly gay. Before I met Charlie I had already been a christian missionary in Arizona. I was not too religious or conservative to have an openly gay relationship with a man and be very good friend with at least one effeminate man (there were others at the time also). All of my christian friends were aware I was living in a relationship with a gay man. They didn't approve of my relationship but I did not abandon him or go underground either...

What are your liberal qualifications to attack my liberal standing? As if you are or ever have been more liberal than me... (lol)

As a general rule I date my boyfriends before in engage in sex with them...

Kind of interesting reading RedRex. I read through some of your posts, and you have a interesting life and seem compassionate, didn't see that side of you too much before.

But anyway, I remember once on one of these threads on a same sex marriage discussion you were against gay marriages? Are you still?

I used to not really care about gay marriage. I figured gays could date and live together so what was the big deal. When I heard Baldacci our Maine governor approved gay marriage I thought wow (how impressive and I admired him very much!) I can now marry my boyfriend. The next day the republicans were out in full swing getting signatures to overturn the the new law about to go into effect. That infuriated me. That was the last straw.

Then I thought of this dream that had been hidden in my subconscious as a young man that i wanted to marry a man someday. It was a constant thought actually and seemed to fade as i got older and reasoned what is a piece of paper if there is love anyway.

With this new law in Maine I suddenly realized the importance of supporting gay marriage in my state. Not civil unions but marriage. Gay people have a right to the that same feeling of being hitched for life. Gay people can have kids but not with each other but often children are bought into the marriage from a previous relationship.

I have always been monogamous at heart. That is why when my bf asked me to not be so close with Charlie Howard it gave me some pause. It would be like if mans wife asked him to stop hanging around with a very aggressive woman. It should give him some pause if he really loves his wife. I fully support gay marriage now. I am waking up and realizing my dreams of love matter very much to me. Till death do we part.

(1) I don't call myself a "liberal"
(2) I would never attack you for being a liberal, largely because I'm not convinced that you are a liberal.


About as much difference as there is between you and me.


And I never will.


This isn't about you being gay. This is about you being a hypocritical proponent of a vile, hateful political philosophy who has now "converted" to liberalism with evidently less thought and reflection than some people rely upon to "convert" to a different brand of coffee. The others here might buy your "road to Damascus" conversion story, but I'm not one of them.

I am not asking you to buy anything Joe. This is a discussion not a bargain barn... I have listed my my core political beliefs. If you have any questions regarding them instead of attacking my dead gay friend and me maybe you could articulate as to what your own beliefs are.

I am actually very happy about this change in my life. I feel like I am finally free from this conservative ball and chain. All that time in the republican party and I was not once invited to the bohemian grove (just kidding).

I even like Obama and I am sorry for overreacting to Michelle's comments about America. I am willing to give him ample time to get his act together. No matter how much you tell me that I hate myself etc. it will not change what I think now. I was already brainwashed by the religious right such that I am now immune to their tactics.

If you disagree with my core beliefs you may start by saying why rather than attacking my character at least as you "think" you see my character..

One minute you say I hate myself and the next you say I am proud of myself. I don't want to be your enemy. That was the point of this whole change was to find a middle ground where staunch dead religious laws do not govern the people but a progressive idea of unity and liberty governs the land of the free. I am tired of the ten commandments being shoved down our throats by Mr Craig and his homo hating hypocrites from the hill.

Yes, the Canadians play polka...