Talking to your kid about "the n- word".

I think that there are other things that may cut to the "bone of a person's existence"

Some politically correct consultants say that companies cannot and should not refuse to permit male employees to dress casually, wear dreadlocks or have tattoes on the face since that would be a Eurocentric Code which, of course, cut to the "bone of a person's existence".

That may be ONE of the reasons why there are few black partners in large law firms--

How about the need to be dishonest about who you are and what you believe, for instance??

It is not only in Arab and Persian countries were saying what is not wanted to be heard will earn one an immediate attack. Most people cower in the face of the threat of retribution for non conformance. Not everyone will, thankfully.

I, along with virtually every other poster was referring to a non-black person's use of the word as an insult.

If you can not understand how the affect of the word on a black person rests entirely upon the state of the speaker, you are very slow.

Did it ever dawn on you that some blacks use of the word is to undercut its power when used by non-blacks? In other words, it is an attempt to neutralize a weapon of hate by turning it into an ordinary word.

btw: Thanks for pointing me to some street creds, but I think I'll get along fine and am likely the only white guy you would ever meet who has ever been pulled over for a DWB, or trained by Chuck Davis.

http://www.answers.com/topic/chuck-davis

Hawkeye 10--You are, as usual, correct. I admire those who tell the truth even though it is not politically correct. One of my favorite professors, who taught my brother, is the great political scientist at Harvard, Harvey Mansfield, who, in revolt against the idiotic cheapening of grades which occurred when so many blacks came on to the campus(affirmative action) of course, gave two grades---One was the grade for the official transcript, the other was the grade that they really earned.

Well, Hawkeye 10, I am sure that Professor Mansfield really "cut to the bone of some people's existence when he said:

'White students must admit their guilt so that minority students do not have to admit their incapacity"

That quote should be carved into a stone wall on Harvard Square for all posterity to see!

Re: genoves(Post 3686013)
Quote:
I think that there are other things that may cut to the "bone of a person's existence

How about the need to be dishonest about who you are and what you believe, for instance??

It is not only in Arab and Persian countries were saying what is not wanted to be heard will earn one an immediate attack. Most people cower in the face of the threat of retribution for non conformance. Not everyone will, thankfully.

I think that there are other things that may cut to the "bone of a person's existence"

Some politically correct consultants say that companies cannot and should not refuse to permit male employees to dress casually, wear dreadlocks or have tattoes on the face since that would be a Eurocentric Code which, of course, cut to the "bone of a person's existence".

That may be ONE of the reasons why there are few black partners in large law firms--

Note:

Opinions

Volume 74 Issue 8
Thursday, November 7, 2002

Think twice before using hurtful words
Dear Editor:

Last Wednesday, I attended a New Paltz Ice Hawks Hockey Game. When I walked into the arena I was confronted with the usual loud, rowdy crowd of home team supporters, using regular, almost mandatory "**** talk:" "Go back to Staten Island," "Who ever heard of Wagner anyway?" and "Number 90 is a bitch!" As with most sporting events, I expected there to be these types of comments circulating throughout the crowd, but almost nothing could prepare me for some of the remarks I heard that night.

Faggot. Fag. Homo. Gay.

This is the type of language that was carelessly hurled at the opposing team in regular intervals, followed of course by thundering laughter. Why is it that these blatantly hateful comments are tolerated and, what's worse, enjoyed by the public? Why, if someone spits out the word "faggot" at someone else, are they rewarded with approval? I found myself torn between calling the offenders on their inappropriateness and potentially submitting myself to public ridicule, or stay seated and endure the homophobic comments, remaining anonymous.

When the puck was launched off of the ice and towards the opposing team's coaches, one of the men happened to catch it in his hands. A member of the Ice Hawk supporters cupped his hands to his mouth to shout "Nice faggot!" Instantly the New Paltz crowd sprung to life, praising the young man for his incisive wit. Another commonality among the crowd's phrases was "Wagner is gay," something that was chanted during the breaks in the game.

If, like Eminem, your argument with the definition of the word "faggot" is to claim that you use the word as a way of stripping someone of their manhood or whether you just use it as a common putdown, you need to realize the power and hatred behind those words. Consider this, what would the crowds' reaction have been if the term "faggot" was replaced with any other slur?

"Nice catch, nigger," or "Wagner is Jewish." If someone had the audacity to utter something such as that, the reaction would have had a far more devastating consequence than laughter. Of course, using your logic, I could argue with my definition of the word "nigger," and claim that I interpret that term as a man who is inferior, or ignorant. Then we're all even, and everyone agrees, right? Not quite.

Everyone agrees that the word "nigger" is an especially hateful word, and is no longer tolerated. But what most people need to realize, is that "faggot"' and homo' are equally as hateful; only not as notorious. Yet. On the vast spectrum of derogatory remarks, "faggot," or "dyke" are no less intolerable than words like, "spic," "retard," or "kyke."

Hateful comments cannot be tolerated. If you belong to any minority, and ever felt that you were being oppressed or targeted inappropriately, then it is safe to assume you can sympathize. The gay community today faces completely unprovoked harassment on unconditional terms. Although you may not feel that homophobic comments are a problem, and you often trivialize the nature of these words, it does not change the solid fact that they are hurtful.

I am sure that whoever said "Nice catch, faggot!" failed to realize the intensity of what he was saying, and didn't intend to offend anyone, least of all, me, as much as he did. But to be realistic, instead of arguing over the way you use the word, would it not be more beneficial to cease homophobic comments entirely? If, in your opinion, it's not a big deal to use these words, understand that it's not a big deal to stop using them. Replace "faggot" with "dickless" if your intent is to "strip" someone of his masculinity.

We need to understand the parallel meaning that exists between all hate words, gender, racial and sexual orientation alike. Discrimination, in every form, is unacceptable and disgusting. The failure to recognize this correlation does nothing but prolong the negative attitude, and aid in further discrimination for years to come. The sooner the problem is recognized, the sooner attempts are made to change the way people think, the sooner the world itself will change. The first step towards acceptance is tolerance.

It is my hope that the next time I decide to venture to a public event of any kind, that I will not be confronted with deliberate ignorance and oppression
************************************************************

ALL HATE WORDS--ALL OF THEM INCLUDING POSSUM

I am willing to be convinced. Is it only conservative Blacks like Dr. Thomas Sowell that can write well? Snood has posted frequently but never says anything or offers any evidence or positions based on documentation.

He is most brief;

Note:
Snood wrote:
Re: boomerang (Post 3684976)
bravo, boomerang .
*************************************************************
Is he just shy? I hope that he is not exhibiting a lack of learning or ability to discuss ideas. If he is, he is not being a good example for his race and, therefore, should desist from posting!

I have considered the possibility, and rejected it. Your explanation is convoluted, hyper intellectual and does not conform to my personal experience. I am sure that the guys I know call each other nigga as a form a black pride, as in "I am a nigga, and proud of it". I do have a problem with the black refusal to allow whites to take back the word from the way in was bastardized during the KKK era. I am hoping that we will get there one day.

Anyone who has seen the great movie "West Side Story"--a plea for tolerance and understanding--may remember the scene in the candy store where the two groups nearly came to blows. I can recall the words--Spick, Mick, Wop, Polack, being spat out in anger.

The study of American History reveals that these words were part and parcel of our daily lives in the past hundred years. They have, for the most part, disappeared from use since most of those groups mentioned have assimilated into American Culture.

I should add Kuvasz, that you insist upon treating blacks a victims. When one heals from abuse they refuse to allow their former abusers to control them anymore, they cut the chain. You have the right idea when you say that blacks are taking back the word nigger, but then you immediately fall back into the victim mentality by linking this event to your ideas on hate and you understanding of what happened in the past. When the blacks I know use the term nigger it has nothing to do with whites, with the past, with hate, none of that ****. It is all about them....." I am a nigger, and I am proud of it"

Hawkeye 10--My hat's off to you. You tell it like it is.

genoves said:

Conversation between Kuvasz and Genoves:
Genoves wrote:
I'll tell you what really cuts to the bone of a person's existence, Kuvasz. It is systematically being excluded from a career which, according to all measures, you should be able to work at, but are being blocked by idiotic measures of trying to equalize people who are measured to be unequal.
Kuvasz wrote:
Wow, Massy, after eight years on-line you reveal your failures as a bureaucrat and lie them at the feet of affirmative action (and quite honestly, I must admit, with some of your more insane posts, you reminded me of Adolph Hilter's father, a petty bureaucrat himself ). No wonder you are a bitter and twisted bugger who cannot pass up tossing racial slurs at black folks. Thanks buckeroo, it explains a lot about your nutty behavior and quest for adolation and confirmation of your "brilliant" intellect on-site. After all, even though you have been expelled from this site, what? Four or five times, you return with another alias so you can attempt to get someone, a newbie usually, to tell you how great you are.

I used to be filled with disgust for your behavior and snotty style. Now, all I feel is pity for you. I am so sorry you hurt so bad.

But then again, after recalling some of your posts, maybe that black or female was just better than you with people.
Genoves wrote:
You will learn what that is, Kuvasz when the people who have been cut to the bone of their existence are restored by the Supreme Court of the US before the end of this month.

I note that Kuvasz refrains from commenting on my last paragraph because he knows that the Supreme Court is going to stick the concept of Affirmative Action deep into the ears of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Kuvasz.
**************************************************************

Kuvasz has, without realizing it, cut to the bone of my existence--He has said that I was a failure as a bureaucrat( This wounds me deeply since I had a great self0Image before Kuvasz said that and now I am crushed--cut to the bone of my existence.

Then, Kuvasz further twists the knife-He says that I am a bitter and twisted bugger who cannot pass up tossing slurs at black folks9 NOW, WAIT A MINUTE--BITTER AND TWISTED I'LL PASS OVER BUT NOT BUGGER.

ARE YOU BY ANY CHANCE A HOMOSEXUAL? Speaking so easily about Buggers?

But it is here that I must part with Kuvasz--He accuses me of a quest for "adolation". I have searched two dictionaries as well as the Encyclopedia Brittanica and I cannot find any such word. Perhaps, Kuvasz has given us a neologism.

Re: hawkeye10 (Post 3686039)
I should add Kuvasz, that you insist upon treating blacks a victims. When one heals from abuse they refuse to allow their former abusers to control them anymore, they cut the chain. You have the right idea when you say that blacks are taking back the word nigger, but then you immediately fall back into the victim mentality by linking this event to your ideas on hate and you understanding of what happened in the past. When the blacks I know use the term nigger it has nothing to do with whites, with the past, with hate, none of that ****. It is all about them....." I am a nigger, and I am proud of it"

Anyone who has seen the great movie "West Side Story"--a plea for tolerance and understanding--may remember the scene in the candy store where the two groups nearly came to blows. I can recall the words--Spick, Mick, Wop, Polack, being spat out in anger.

The study of American History reveals that these words were part and parcel of our daily lives in the past hundred years. They have, for the most part, disappeared from use since most of those groups mentioned have assimilated into American Culture.

Re: kuvasz (Post 3686028)
Quote:
Did it ever dawn on you that some blacks use of the word is to undercut its power when used by non-blacks? In other words, it is an attempt to neutralize a weapon of hate by turning it into an ordinary word.

I have considered the possibility, and rejected it. Your explanation is convoluted, hyper intellectual and does not conform to my personal experience. I am sure that the guys I know call each other nigga as a form a black pride, as in "I am a nigga, and proud of it". I do have a problem with the black refusal to allow whites to take back the word from the way in was bastardized during the KKK era. I am hoping that we will get there one day.

I am willing to be convinced. Is it only conservative Blacks like Dr. Thomas Sowell that can write well? Snood has posted frequently but never says anything or offers any evidence or positions based on documentation.

He is most brief;

Note:
Snood wrote:
Re: boomerang (Post 3684976)
bravo, boomerang .
*************************************************************
Is he just shy? I hope that he is not exhibiting a lack of learning or ability to discuss ideas. If he is, he is not being a good example for his race and, therefore, should desist from posting!

That is not necessarily the case.
For your convenience I 've copied n pasted this incident
from the 2nd page of this thread:

" I 'm reminded of a (strange?) experience of mine in the 1990s.
There were about 6 male blacks aged around 20 in an elevator,
of whom one was highly and vocally enraged toward another one, not present.

The angry one raged on and on in his complaints,
addressing the others, and repeatedly referring to the object
of his ire by the word that is the subject matter of this thread.
He raised his voice in emphasis every time he attributed this
racial description to the perpetrator of his discontent (whose race he shared).

His denunciations were the only voice in the elevator."

The blacks that he was addressing (yelling) did not object.

Note:

Opinions

Volume 74 Issue 8
Thursday, November 7, 2002

Think twice before using hurtful words
Dear Editor:

Last Wednesday, I attended a New Paltz Ice Hawks Hockey Game. When I walked into the arena I was confronted with the usual loud, rowdy crowd of home team supporters, using regular, almost mandatory "**** talk:" "Go back to Staten Island," "Who ever heard of Wagner anyway?" and "Number 90 is a bitch!" As with most sporting events, I expected there to be these types of comments circulating throughout the crowd, but almost nothing could prepare me for some of the remarks I heard that night.

Faggot. Fag. Homo. Gay.

This is the type of language that was carelessly hurled at the opposing team in regular intervals, followed of course by thundering laughter. Why is it that these blatantly hateful comments are tolerated and, what's worse, enjoyed by the public? Why, if someone spits out the word "faggot" at someone else, are they rewarded with approval? I found myself torn between calling the offenders on their inappropriateness and potentially submitting myself to public ridicule, or stay seated and endure the homophobic comments, remaining anonymous.

When the puck was launched off of the ice and towards the opposing team's coaches, one of the men happened to catch it in his hands. A member of the Ice Hawk supporters cupped his hands to his mouth to shout "Nice faggot!" Instantly the New Paltz crowd sprung to life, praising the young man for his incisive wit. Another commonality among the crowd's phrases was "Wagner is gay," something that was chanted during the breaks in the game.

If, like Eminem, your argument with the definition of the word "faggot" is to claim that you use the word as a way of stripping someone of their manhood or whether you just use it as a common putdown, you need to realize the power and hatred behind those words. Consider this, what would the crowds' reaction have been if the term "faggot" was replaced with any other slur?

"Nice catch, nigger," or "Wagner is Jewish." If someone had the audacity to utter something such as that, the reaction would have had a far more devastating consequence than laughter. Of course, using your logic, I could argue with my definition of the word "nigger," and claim that I interpret that term as a man who is inferior, or ignorant. Then we're all even, and everyone agrees, right? Not quite.

Everyone agrees that the word "nigger" is an especially hateful word, and is no longer tolerated. But what most people need to realize, is that "faggot"' and homo' are equally as hateful; only not as notorious. Yet. On the vast spectrum of derogatory remarks, "faggot," or "dyke" are no less intolerable than words like, "spic," "retard," or "kyke."

Hateful comments cannot be tolerated. If you belong to any minority, and ever felt that you were being oppressed or targeted inappropriately, then it is safe to assume you can sympathize. The gay community today faces completely unprovoked harassment on unconditional terms. Although you may not feel that homophobic comments are a problem, and you often trivialize the nature of these words, it does not change the solid fact that they are hurtful.

I am sure that whoever said "Nice catch, faggot!" failed to realize the intensity of what he was saying, and didn't intend to offend anyone, least of all, me, as much as he did. But to be realistic, instead of arguing over the way you use the word, would it not be more beneficial to cease homophobic comments entirely? If, in your opinion, it's not a big deal to use these words, understand that it's not a big deal to stop using them. Replace "faggot" with "dickless" if your intent is to "strip" someone of his masculinity.

We need to understand the parallel meaning that exists between all hate words, gender, racial and sexual orientation alike. Discrimination, in every form, is unacceptable and disgusting. The failure to recognize this correlation does nothing but prolong the negative attitude, and aid in further discrimination for years to come. The sooner the problem is recognized, the sooner attempts are made to change the way people think, the sooner the world itself will change. The first step towards acceptance is tolerance.

It is my hope that the next time I decide to venture to a public event of any kind, that I will not be confronted with deliberate ignorance and oppression
************************************************************

ALL HATE WORDS--ALL OF THEM INCLUDING POSSUM