Talking to your kid about "the n- word".

Where I live, overt racism is still alive and well...of course not the Jim Crow stuff.....black only drinking fountain, or white only seating in the theatre....but for each area that positive strides have been made.....there has been an obverse effect....in many ways we are just as much segregated as we were pre 65....nearly 45 years after the fact.

Our oldest daughter has one more year of high school left, but we still have two littles ones to go thru all this stuff with again....it's tricky.

Note:

Opinions

Volume 74 Issue 8
Thursday, November 7, 2002

Think twice before using hurtful words
Dear Editor:

Last Wednesday, I attended a New Paltz Ice Hawks Hockey Game. When I walked into the arena I was confronted with the usual loud, rowdy crowd of home team supporters, using regular, almost mandatory "**** talk:" "Go back to Staten Island," "Who ever heard of Wagner anyway?" and "Number 90 is a bitch!" As with most sporting events, I expected there to be these types of comments circulating throughout the crowd, but almost nothing could prepare me for some of the remarks I heard that night.

Faggot. Fag. Homo. Gay.

This is the type of language that was carelessly hurled at the opposing team in regular intervals, followed of course by thundering laughter. Why is it that these blatantly hateful comments are tolerated and, what's worse, enjoyed by the public? Why, if someone spits out the word "faggot" at someone else, are they rewarded with approval? I found myself torn between calling the offenders on their inappropriateness and potentially submitting myself to public ridicule, or stay seated and endure the homophobic comments, remaining anonymous.

When the puck was launched off of the ice and towards the opposing team's coaches, one of the men happened to catch it in his hands. A member of the Ice Hawk supporters cupped his hands to his mouth to shout "Nice faggot!" Instantly the New Paltz crowd sprung to life, praising the young man for his incisive wit. Another commonality among the crowd's phrases was "Wagner is gay," something that was chanted during the breaks in the game.

If, like Eminem, your argument with the definition of the word "faggot" is to claim that you use the word as a way of stripping someone of their manhood or whether you just use it as a common putdown, you need to realize the power and hatred behind those words. Consider this, what would the crowds' reaction have been if the term "faggot" was replaced with any other slur?

"Nice catch, nigger," or "Wagner is Jewish." If someone had the audacity to utter something such as that, the reaction would have had a far more devastating consequence than laughter. Of course, using your logic, I could argue with my definition of the word "nigger," and claim that I interpret that term as a man who is inferior, or ignorant. Then we're all even, and everyone agrees, right? Not quite.

Everyone agrees that the word "nigger" is an especially hateful word, and is no longer tolerated. But what most people need to realize, is that "faggot"' and homo' are equally as hateful; only not as notorious. Yet. On the vast spectrum of derogatory remarks, "faggot," or "dyke" are no less intolerable than words like, "spic," "retard," or "kyke."

Hateful comments cannot be tolerated. If you belong to any minority, and ever felt that you were being oppressed or targeted inappropriately, then it is safe to assume you can sympathize. The gay community today faces completely unprovoked harassment on unconditional terms. Although you may not feel that homophobic comments are a problem, and you often trivialize the nature of these words, it does not change the solid fact that they are hurtful.

I am sure that whoever said "Nice catch, faggot!" failed to realize the intensity of what he was saying, and didn't intend to offend anyone, least of all, me, as much as he did. But to be realistic, instead of arguing over the way you use the word, would it not be more beneficial to cease homophobic comments entirely? If, in your opinion, it's not a big deal to use these words, understand that it's not a big deal to stop using them. Replace "faggot" with "dickless" if your intent is to "strip" someone of his masculinity.

We need to understand the parallel meaning that exists between all hate words, gender, racial and sexual orientation alike. Discrimination, in every form, is unacceptable and disgusting. The failure to recognize this correlation does nothing but prolong the negative attitude, and aid in further discrimination for years to come. The sooner the problem is recognized, the sooner attempts are made to change the way people think, the sooner the world itself will change. The first step towards acceptance is tolerance.

It is my hope that the next time I decide to venture to a public event of any kind, that I will not be confronted with deliberate ignorance and oppression
************************************************************

ALL HATE WORDS--ALL OF THEM INCLUDING POSSUM.

Is there a reason
that I shoud be interested in proving u rong ?

something that I don 't know about ?

Dyslexia - That adage is generally true, but there is a vast difference in pace noticeable between rural and urban societies in that regard. The 'n' word probably still has the solely negative conotation it has gotten in history in rural areas, but in 'street' or 'young' urban society, the word is rapidly (d)evolving.

It needs to be taken into account, because whether you like it or not, as panzade mentions, the word is being used in another context then most adults associate it with. And I fear it's next to impossible to dictate word (ab)use as used between people who identify themselves with 'another' culture.
Such as teachers/parents vs. students/children.
Or non-afroamericans vs. afroamericans.

The best thing you can do I think is to tell your kids about the negative associations the word commonly evokes, point out it's use in history, without delving too deep in the horrors inflicted on the slaves (do they NEED to know about the whippings and torture and all that to understand the word has a tainted history?). But also caution them that nowadays other groups of people more and more use the word differently, even though you don't approve of it.

It might not be a bad idea (I think) for us adults to listen to MTV music/talkshows etc. for several hours a month, just to get an idea what kind of 'role' models influence the kids these days.

I'm not sure I agree.

The use of many words like the n-word rarely become positive as much as they become meaningless. Meaningless however only in the sense that the speaker applies no (or marginally small) amount of the meaning of the word.

Consider oversaturation.

The phrase "I love you" is an overwelmingly posisitve thing, but in our media culture, we can become quickly desensitized from it's use. We don't react to those words like we once may have. To quote Ze Frank: "It's like there is infaltion on the currency of romance." However, no matter how saturated our language becomes with 'I love you's the phrase will not become negative. At most, it becomes meaningless or neutral from its routine usage.

With negative language like the n-word, I'm not convinced it can become positive, but perhaps oversaturated.

As for teaching a child about hate language, I think it has to be forward and sober. Other children and people won't hesitate to use these words and teach your child otherwise. It may be most effective to explain why you don't use that kind of language. Children learn from example, and simply seeing you not say a word may not convey any sort of intentionality in your language. conveying why you don't say certain things may be helpful.

T
K
O

hawk

true true
when I was young, this was how racism was promoted..I think today, media and popular culture can undo the worst forms of bigotry

genovese

I agree, and since you're bringing up hate words on A2K, I'm dismayed by the name calling-disrespect being shown by all sides of the political spectrum. I don't know why this got started, but as much as I dislike your opinions and style of posting I'm just not going to lower myself by calling you names...never.

I thought I would report back on how our conversation went:

We were doing some work in the backyard today, quiet work which usually leads to interesting conversation, when the topic of "dirty words" came back up.

I told him that I would tell him "the n- word" but that he would have to hear me out through the whole explaination. I went about it just almost exactly as everyone had suggested in the first part of this thread. He really listened and I think he truly understood why I think it's such an ugly word and why I don't want him to use it.

He was kind of shocked that anyone ever made up a word to use like that. I thought that was kind of neat -- his shock over such things.

I didn't want to muddy up the water with a conversation of who can use the word and why they can. I think that conversation can come later.

I asked him if there were any other words that he had questions about and he had a list (ha! dlowan's on target again!) so I also got the opportunity to clear up some misconceptions (he thought "faggot" meant fat) and clairfy some other things.

I think it went pretty well! Thank you all again for your help.

Now I'd better go track down "Bob's" mom and tell her that I filled Mo in on the dirty words he and Bob were asking about so if Mo decides to share his newfound information she'll be prepared.

I agree, and I thought other posters had given some thoughtful advice on how to explain the word.
The current use of the word was off topic but a natural progression on A2K. Glad you were happy with the outcome.

For the sake of security,
the most important thing for him to know is that
its use might cause a fight if said around blacks.

Actually, the most important thing to know is that if he uses such a word he is asking for a fight and he should be prepared to get clobbered.

Now that he knows what the word means, if I catch him using it I might be the one to clobber him.

On ya Boomerang!!!!

bravo, boomerang

I thought the most important thing to know is the word reflects a racist historical usage and should not be used by people today?

NO

SHOULD is a personal position, which you are free to hold, so long as you don't demand that others agree with or conform to your beliefs. If you believe that you should not use the term then don't. But you are not free to control other people's choice on the matter.

The thread is what is the meaning of the word. If someone wants to travel to how the word is used then they should talk about how the word is used, not how they THINK or FEEL that the word should be used. Keep in mind that the N word is really two words, nigger and nigga. Nigga usage is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigga

Nigger and Nigga are not dead words (archaic), those who think that they are are wrong. Those who teach that the words are historical artifacts are either wrong or they are liars.

Well, Panzade, I must say that I have gained a great deal of respect for you. I promise you that I will treat each and every one of your ideas with respect. I may not agree with your posts but I will respect them. You see, panzade, I always try to give a rationale for my posts. The rationale may be mistaken or slanted but I have attempted to give evidence even when not asked. I sincerely believe that many on these threads think that contrary positions must not be expressed. When they viewed my posts and were not able to rebut them, they descended into hate words.

I do not allow anyone to disrespect me by using hate words. I have responded in kind. Since I know that you are not one who will attack someone personally and will restrict your posts to ideas and not ad hominem attacks, I will be more than happy to respond to you as I would to anyone who is polite---most politely.

Anyone who has seen the great movie "West Side Story"--a plea for tolerance and understanding--may remember the scene in the candy store where the two groups nearly came to blows. I can recall the words--Spick, Mick, Wop, Polack, being spat out in anger.

The study of American History reveals that these words were part and parcel of our daily lives in the past hundred years. They have, for the most part, disappeared from use since most of those groups mentioned have assimilated into American Culture.

Hi Snood.

Glad to see you, but circumstances could have been better to meet on a less hurtful thread. I had scanned through the earlier comments and as I digested them. I thought how they were clinical, unemotional, almost akin to someone trying to hold a dog turd in their hands and remain dignified. No, I thought you're missing the point. A black person would know that it is not something to intellectualize, because the word cuts to the bone of a person's existence and is used not simply to belittle but to obliterate the humanity of the person(s) to which the word is directed . One knows the power of word only by being its object. You don't gets much more concentrated hate from a human being other than that word.

What drivel, you should get out more. I am confident that if your hung out with black men you will hear the N words constantly, and also find that they are not self hating. I know mostly middle aged black guys, but I think the younger ones are the same way.

Really? Kuvasz--really? What about spic, wop, kraut, towel-head, gimp, pimp, mick, polack?

Are you a psychiatrist with access to the inner lives of all peoples?

Have you plotted the reactions in the brains of subjects who were called those names?

Cuts to the bone of a person's existence says Kuvasz.

I'll tell you what really cuts to the bone of a person's existence, Kuvasz. It is systematically being excluded from a career which, according to all measures, you should be able to work at, but are being blocked by idiotic measures of trying to equalize people who are measured to be unequal.

You will learn what that is, Kuvasz when the people who have been cut to the bone of their existence are restored by the Supreme Court of the US before the end of this month.