Guns: how much longer will it take ....

@Green Witch,

Another very interesting post, Green Witch. (I missed it earlier on.)
Your insights are a big help in my (so far) extremely frustrating attempts to comprehend the US obsession with gun ownership. (Well, that's how it looks from here!)

Quote:

The reality is I don't think anyone can change the gun culture in America. It's imbedded. It mostly comes from a history of paranoia about losing our freedom. Even as strong as we are, many Americans feel someone is always out to get them. I think many Americas care far more about their personal freedom to own guns than they do for human life itself. The death of people by guns is just the price we pay for some members of our country to feel in control of their destiny. The reality is guns do not make for a secure, safe society. Countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan and Congo are all saturated with guns and have incredible amounts of violence. Countries like Scotland, Sweden and Japan have few guns and little gun violence. Personally, I think all kinds guns are here to stay in America and we will just have to live with the consequences and the karma.

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@mysteryman,

I believe in amending the constitution, definitely.

maporsche, we're talking civilized here, not third world dictators in Africa,
unless you want to compare yourself to them. They're pro gun too!

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@CalamityJane,

Then feel free to try and amend it.
There is nobody stopping you, however do you really think you can?

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@mysteryman,

I don't want to ban autos, MM, it would be way too inconvenient for me.

I DO think that we should penalize traffic violations much more though. I think going 10 mph over the speed limit should result in a 90 day suspension of your driver's license. 20 over should result in a 1 year suspension and immediate donation of the automobile to a children's hospital. There IS too much needless life lost because of conscious decisions made by careless drivers. The penalty's for such law breaking decisions, ones that increase fatalities, should be great.

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@CalamityJane,

Do you drive CJ?

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@maporsche,

Quote:

I don't want to ban autos, MM, it would be way too inconvenient for me.

So you dont want to ban something that you want or need, but you have no problem banning something that other people want or think they need, just because you dont like it?

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@mysteryman,

...have you been reading what I'm writing???

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Then feel free to try and amend it.
There is nobody stopping you, however do you really think you can?

Yes I can! With my vote and the vote of people who think alike - we won't
do it today, but we'll succeed ultimately!

maporsche, of course I drive - driving a car has nothing to do with
owning a gun. Yes, people die in car accidents, people die of cancer and
other illnesses too, but that's not an argument to have the right to own a gun.

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I for one want no part of you guys trying to take away all my neighbors guns...

(most of 'em are decent enough folks till you stir their brain cells with the gun taking away talk)

Stupid **** will happen. where the hell is cj???

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@mysteryman,

Quote:

Quote:
The emphasis on common good in Canadian law, compared with the rights of individuals.

But I would rather have the "rights of individuals".
Not just regarding gun laws, but in all things.

"Common Good" can be used to subvert anyones rights, IMHO.
If a court decides its the "Common Good", what would stop them from confiscating your home or property?
What would stop them from deciding that a group of people can no longer be allowed to vote, because they dont vote the right way?
What would stop them from banning certain religions, based on the idea that its for the "Common Good"?

That term "Common Good" is scary

Goodness, what on earth did you think I meant by "common good", mysteryman? Confused

1 Reply

@msolga,

Quote:

Goodness, what on earth did you think I meant by "common good", mysteryman?

What you meant by it is meaningless.
Even if you had the best of intentions (which I believe you do), if the majority decides that "common good" means something different, then your definition is meaningless.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

I care more about my right to own guns than I do about the life that is lost because of guns.

I don't know why you feel people have to admit this, it's rather obvious isn't it?

Hell, I don't think it's even that shocking of a statement......

maporsche

You actually mean this?

Or is this some attempt a humour, or irony, or something (?) that's lost (0n me) via "cultural translation"?

If you actually do mean it, well, I honestly don't know what to say ........

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@CalamityJane,

No, owning a car doesn't have anything to do with owning a gun.

But the argument that some people are making, and I believe you to support, is that the human cost of the 2nd amendment is not worth having the 2nd amendment (and want to amend the constitution to remove it).

I'm curious if you think the human cost of automobile ownership is worth having automobiles. Hell, I'm curious if you've even thought about it.

1 Reply

@msolga,

Of course I mean it.

Why is that so shocking?

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@maporsche,

No I have never thought to compare cars to guns, why would I?
The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with cars.

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@CalamityJane,

I'm not comparing cars to guns.

I'm comparing the argument some are using against guns to using that same argument against cars.

I know you're smart enough to understand the difference.

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@CalamityJane,

There's an analogy, though.

Because we have cars, thousands and thousands of people die from motor vehicle trauma.

It seems likely that cars contribute a great deal to global warming...if humans are influencing this.

Car-related pollution is also extremely toxic.

I could continue.

Because we love the convenience that cars bring, we demand the freedom to continue using them, when common sense would decree that their use be restricted.

I have always thought the car analogy very interesting.

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@maporsche,

I will add, that its obvious that eliminating guns will not eliminate murder.

I highly doubt that if all 200 million guns in the US were rounded up that you'd see anything but a very marginal reduction in murder.

I'm confident that you'd see an increase in violent crimes and property theft though.

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@mysteryman,

Mystery man

You should read a bit more carefully. My comment on "the common good" was a response to hamburger's post, a few pages back. It is to do with the stated aims of Canada's constitution.

Quote:

..it has been suggested by some that one of the reasons can be found in canada's constitution act of 1867 - the years canada was "founded" .
this is what is being referred to as the principal objects of the federal government :
Quote:
Section 91 authorizes Parliament to "make laws for the peace, order, and good government of Canada "

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@dlowan,

Yes, but even with cars, we've progressed somewhat and are working on
solutions to at least control pollution with electro cars and fuel alternatives.

With gun control, a first step would be registration and the prohibition of certain firearms.

2 Replies

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

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