53
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 12:24 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
oralloy wrote:
They'd be just as dead if he'd killed them with a knife.

Monumentally stupid argument.

Not at all. The argument makes clear that the left is engaging in hysteria over nothing.

Listen to the wisdom of Archie Bunker:


It truly doesn't matter whether someone is killed with a gun versus killed with some other weapon.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 12:36 pm
@oralloy,
Yup but they arent. Again and again they arent.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 12:36 pm
@MontereyJack,
So what?
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 12:46 pm
@oralloy,
Archie bunker was a caricature, a laughingstock and the butt of jokes for years. Figures he:d be your role model
.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 12:47 pm
@oralloy,
So your argument is loopy
.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 12:50 pm
@MontereyJack,
That is incorrect. The argument points out that the left is engaging in hysteria over nothing.

If my argument had actually been loopy, you would have been able to explain why it matters that someone is killed with a gun instead of with a knife.

But you cannot explain why it matters.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2021 12:57 pm
@oralloy,
Takes a true sociopath to argue that 17000 gun deaths so far this year is hysteria over nothing.e
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 06:51 am
@MontereyJack,
Not at all. All it takes is an understanding that it doesn't really matter what kind of weapon is used to kill people.

Those 17000 people would all be equally as dead if they were killed with a weapon other than a gun.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 08:56 am
@oralloy,
those 17000 people would be just as dead if they were killed by covid19. we're spending billions of dollars to wipe out the scourge of covid 19. A million people in the u.s. will die from the scourge of gun violence in the course of your lifetime. Let's wipe out the scourge of gun violence too. Your argument is really really lame.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 01:05 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
those 17000 people would be just as dead if they were killed by covid19. we're spending billions of dollars to wipe out the scourge of covid 19.

Preventing someone from dying of Covid actually saves a life.

Having a murder victim be killed with a knife instead of with a gun doesn't save any lives. The victim is still just as dead.


MontereyJack wrote:
A million people in the u.s. will die from the scourge of gun violence in the course of your lifetime. Let's wipe out the scourge of gun violence too.

No. They'll be just as dead if they are killed with some other weapon.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 07:50 pm
@oralloy,
your argument is nonsense. the relevant variable is not"justas dead as...". it is "dead"". period. dead is dead is dead. Your answering a pesudo question that no one is asking and totsally avoiding the question that pkeople are asking. which is why your silly 'justy as dead as" is gaining no traction in the debate. the point is not that people can be killed with knives, or for that matterr with pi;lows. the point is that people ARE being killed with guns and that's unacceptable.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 08:10 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
your argument is nonsense.

Funny how no one has ever been able to defeat it.


MontereyJack wrote:
the relevant variable is not "just as dead as...". it is "dead"". period.

Same thing.


MontereyJack wrote:
dead is dead is dead.

So why are you making such a big fuss over what sort of weapon murderers use to kill people with?


MontereyJack wrote:
Your answering a pesudo question that no one is asking and totally avoiding the question that people are asking.

I am not answering a question. I am the one asking a question.

I am not aware of any questions being asked of me. If I was aware of a question being asked of me, I would answer it.


MontereyJack wrote:
which is why your silly 'just as dead as" is gaining no traction in the debate.

On the contrary, my question demolishes the progressive position every time I ask it.


MontereyJack wrote:
the point is not that people can be killed with knives, or for that matter with pillows. the point is that people ARE being killed with guns and that's unacceptable.

Once again. so what? Why does it matter what sort of weapon is used to kill murder victims?
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 09:05 pm
@oralloy,
No. Your queston shows your lack of morality every time you ask it. The wuestion or the concern is NOT "just as dead as"/ the desire is for peole to not be dead from ANY means for as long as ;possible, someone killed with a knife or a pillow is just asdead but that does not make being killed by a knife or a pillow acceptable a preferrsb;e s;ternstive. All sare not acceptable, and there are a shitload of people killed every year witrh guns. None of your attemjpts at logic chopping change that fact, and to the vast majority f people that is not acceptable. You don't want to get rid of the carnage. You find it acce;ptable. and that is immoral. as are you. All right, i'd say it could be being amoral toobut that's reprehensible too.
BillW
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 09:27 pm
@MontereyJack,
In other words, get the bigy resolved, ie guns, then we can start working on knives and then pillows!
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 10:02 pm
@BillW,
When murders are committed with people's bare hands are you going to chop off everyone's arms?

And how are you going to stop people from making their own knives? They can't even stop people from making their own knives in maximum security prisons.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2021 10:03 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
No. Your question shows your lack of morality every time you ask it.

That is incorrect. The difference between "murder with a gun" versus "murder with a knife" is not a moral issue.


MontereyJack wrote:
The question or the concern is NOT "just as dead as"/ the desire is for people to not be dead from ANY means for as long as possible,

Unfortunately no one has ever come up with a way of preventing people from committing murder.


MontereyJack wrote:
someone killed with a knife or a pillow is just as dead but that does not make being killed by a knife or a pillow acceptable a preferable alternative.

My point exactly. That's why I keep asking why you keep making such a fuss about which weapons are used.


MontereyJack wrote:
All are not acceptable,

It's not like there is anything that can be done about it.


MontereyJack wrote:
and there are a shitload of people killed every year with guns.

Like you just admitted above, it doesn't actually matter what weapons are used to murder people. The victims are just as dead either way.


MontereyJack wrote:
None of your attempts at logic chopping change that fact,

No such attempts.

And as noted above, said fact doesn't really matter. Murder victims are just as dead no matter what is used to kill them.


MontereyJack wrote:
You don't want to get rid of the carnage. You find it acceptable.

It's more that there isn't any way to stop the carnage.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2021 03:35 am
@oralloy,
One thing hmanity has proved. we are endlessly inventive at finding ways to kill each other. We have also proved we don't approve of killing each other (with of course trhe obsession moral obscenities like war). Gins were invented to do violence to others. they are very good at that. People find that objectionable. the fewer guns, the more tightly controlled, the fewer oportunities for murder. Most people find that s ca moral andl and personal good. gun zealots do not. too bad. That's simple logic. we will continue to push for gun control no matter what specious virtue signaling arguments you come up with.
mommabear
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2021 09:06 am
Actual stats seem to indicate that an M16 style rifle would be one of the safest things you could possibly have in your house. A mattress or a pillow would be about as safe but that would probably be about it.


https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/200906832_10223535765321175_7248233483196920224_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=T89RviS3pHMAX91kypx&_nc_oc=AQk-u_9Ez3Qae5RtyLDOVueLITqkm0MeBO3Za8GUyvM-5YV_zIRGGAdP4yoAar-ZjsE&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=21e73d540522204cd5067737db35e5a8&oe=60D217F7
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2021 09:08 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
the fewer guns, the more tightly controlled, the fewer opportunities for murder.

Well, yes and no. It can make a difference in a few very limited circumstances, but it's not much of a factor overall.

The number of guns actually has very little bearing on the number of opportunities for murder.


MontereyJack wrote:
That's simple logic.

Logic based on falsehoods gives erroneous results.


MontereyJack wrote:
we will continue to push for gun control

A statement so vague as to be meaningless. Gun control means a wide variety of things.

However, it is inevitable that your push will avoid anything that might actually save lives, and will instead merely try to violate people's civil liberties for fun.

It is also inevitable that your push to violate people's civil liberties for fun will be defeated.


MontereyJack wrote:
no matter what specious virtue signaling arguments you come up with.

Facts and reality are neither specious nor virtue signaling.

The only virtue signaling here is your talk about saving lives when in reality you are only trying to violate people's civil liberties for fun.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2021 11:59 am
@oralloy,
Your attempts to convonce us it is really just about some high-minded lproinciple of constitutional civl liberties rather than what it actually is about, which is gunvioilence and murder is the virtue signaling and it's immokral. The ;logic is clear and undeniab;le no guns means no gun violence and murdser. when you offer us nok regulation of guns, that means gun vioi;ence and murder.
 

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