57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 12:27 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
You've provided a plethora of evidence to the contrary.

Strange how you can never cite any of this imaginary evidence.


vikorr wrote:
All progressives are evil (as example) - is obviously an opinion, but you call it fact, even when challenged on its 'factual' nature.

Before I bother arguing whether that is a fact or an opinion, let's see a cite of me calling it a fact.
vikorr
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 12:44 am
@oralloy,
I've cited the evidence over and over. What is strange is how you can't identify it
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 01:06 am
@vikorr,
You're lying. You cannot cite any post where I say what you claim I say.
vikorr
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 01:07 am
@oralloy,
In my experiences with progressives, they are in fact universally evil.
It is a fact that progressives are evil people.
Conservatives are good people who believe in facts and reality. Progressives are both evil and delusional.
No. Progressives are clearly evil. They are bad people through and through.
Progressives are evil through and through.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 01:47 am
@vikorr,

OK. Well it is factually true that progressives meet the definition of evil.

Only evil people would deliberately violate people's civil liberties for no reason other than the fact that they enjoy violating people's rights.

And look at all the suffering caused to innocents when progressives abuse their power and prosecute them for imaginary crimes.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 06:25 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Well it is factually true that progressives meet the definition of evil.

It is factually true that you are merely stating an opinion based on your subjective definition of evil.
Quote:
Only evil people would deliberately violate people's civil liberties for no reason other than the fact that they enjoy violating people's rights.

You cannot provide factual evidence of that occurring anywhere, ever.
Quote:
And look at all the suffering caused to innocents when progressives abuse their power and prosecute them for imaginary crimes.

That scenario itself is imaginary.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 07:30 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
It is factually true that you are merely stating an opinion based on your subjective definition of evil.

Wrong. The definition of evil may be subjective, but the question of whether someone meets a definition or not is a factual matter.


hightor wrote:
You cannot provide factual evidence of that occurring anywhere, ever.

Yes I can. And I have done so many times in this very thread.

The fact that no one can propose any alternative motivation is evidence that the true motivation for doing this is the one that I provided.


hightor wrote:
That scenario itself is imaginary.

No it isn't. Progressives routinely abuse their power to prosecute innocent people for imaginary crimes. As the most recent example of this, look at the many attempts to prosecute or impeach Mr. Trump.

For an example of an innocent person who was wrongfully convicted because the Democrats framed him for an imaginary crime, look to Scooter Libby.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 11:06 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
The definition of evil may be subjective, but the question of whether someone meets a definition or not is a factual matter.

Not when you make up the definition and rely on your opinions to demonstrate its utility rather than basing your argument around empirical evidence.
Quote:
The fact that no one can propose any alternative motivation is evidence that the true motivation for doing this is the one that I provided.

When I've provided reasons for alternative motivations in the past you've simply ignored, misstated, or misapplied them.
Quote:
As the most recent example of this, look at the many attempts to prosecute or impeach Mr. Trump.

Both impeachment attempts were directly the result of Trump's misconduct.
Quote:
For an example of an innocent person who was wrongfully convicted because the Democrats framed him for an imaginary crime, look to Scooter Libby.

The Democrats didn't "frame" Libby. The investigation by the FBI and Bush's Justice Dept. was at the request of the CIA.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 11:26 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Generally his thought processes are fine - except in discussions of a specific nature. If he has made his mind up - his mind will do cartwheels to continue to support his conclusion. Unfortunately, he has often already made his mind up about any number of topics.

As example, in this racism thing - he has been asked to show anywhere where, when a white & black person is in conflict - he:
- acknowledges perspectives of a black person
- doesn't ignore perspectives that support the black person (evidenced by him ignoring / never admitting such)

- acknowledges context that supports the black person
- doesn't ignore context that supports a black person (evidenced by him ignoring / never admitting such)

- supports a black person (he never has)

He can't post a single place where he has done so, and he has posted many posts in several such threads.

In interpreting vagueries (which is slightly different to the above):
- he ignores any context that supports the black person, and
- focuses on any context that supports the white person (he can't show where he hasn't done this)

- he calls irrelevant any context that supports the black person
- calls relevant anything that supports the white person (even if it is contradicted by the context supporting the black person, which he ignores)

- when multiple interpretations of an event or statement are possible, he focuses only on one...the one that supports the white person...often irregardless of context

This is evidenced in his writing, even while all vagueries rely on context to be interpreted.

He also claims as fact many instances that are purely his opinion, and will not back down from such claim when challenged (which is rather irrational when they are obviously opinion), which many, many posters point out.

His thought processes in this area would be fine if he acknowledged that is what he is doing (which there is very strong evidence for)...but deludely, he thinks he is not doing any of this.
Ok. Let me ask Ollie 2 questions:
(1) Was MLK basically correct about injustices done in American history (and in England) to blacks?
(2) There are a large number of black people who have an amazing amount of character. I wish that I had their moral character. Do you agree that there are plenty of black people whose character is worthy of great praise?
Once again, these questions are to Ollie.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 11:41 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

trump packed the courts already, with far right unqualified judges in large part. The majority did not vote for him or his agenda. He set about destroying everything passed into law in the last half century. AT least twice he was the overwhelming choice for "worst u.s. president ever".
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!!!!!!
There are nine justices on the Supreme Court. Trump never packed the court Biden may increase the number of justices on the Supreme Court from 9 to more than nine.
Note: There was a question about how quickly our last Supreme Court position was filled.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 01:29 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Likewise, questions that need to be asked MJ include:
(1) Will you admit there are blacks who are racists
(2) Will you admit that life is not easy for white people either.

For everyone:
Are you willing to work together with people of all perspectives to help each other?
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 02:42 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Oralloy recognises that slavery was wrong. That is not the thing I said he has a issue with. He also has supported at one time, Obama. This too was not the thing I said he has an issue it. And I've no doubt he supports their right to vote, right to enlist etc etc. His issue is really quite specific. You will find many people are in the same boat - they are not completely biased / racist - their bias / racism exists in specific areas of their thoughts, values and beliefs.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 02:53 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Wrong. The definition of evil may be subjective, but the question of whether someone meets a definition or not is a factual matter.
Evil being one of the most subjective words in the English language - the only way to make it truthful is to say "I think a percentage of progressives meet my definition of evil"....which is factually expressed as your opinion. Anything else is your opinion.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 05:57 pm
@vikorr,
I think that most of the world subjectively defines evil in the same way.

I think that my subjective definition of evil matches that of most of the rest of the world.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 05:58 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:
(1) Was MLK basically correct about injustices done in American history (and in England) to blacks?

Slavery was wrong. Segregation was wrong. (Actual) racism and discrimination are wrong.

I confess that I do not know many specifics about what MLK was protesting against.

I do know of his speech where he wanted people to be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. I agree with that.


NealNealNeal wrote:
(2) There are a large number of black people who have an amazing amount of character. I wish that I had their moral character. Do you agree that there are plenty of black people whose character is worthy of great praise?

Yes. MLK himself was one of the good guys.

I don't know many specific black people, but all populations have a mix of different types of people. So there are definitely plenty of people of good character in the black population.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 06:00 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Not when you make up the definition and rely on your opinions to demonstrate its utility rather than basing your argument around empirical evidence.

My "subjective definition of evil" is the same as the "subjective definition of evil" held by most of humanity.

There is empirical evidence that progressives meet this "subjective definition of evil".


hightor wrote:
When I've provided reasons for alternative motivations in the past you've simply ignored, misstated, or misapplied them.

That is incorrect. I replied by explaining how those alternative definitions were contrary to reality.


hightor wrote:
Both impeachment attempts were directly the result of Trump's misconduct.

That is incorrect. Both impeachments (and all of the moves for criminal prosecution) are directly the result of Democrats abusing their power to harm someone that they disagree with.


hightor wrote:
The Democrats didn't "frame" Libby. The investigation by the FBI and Bush's Justice Dept. was at the request of the CIA.

That is sophistry. These investigations by independent prosecutors are witch hunts driven by progressive desire to harm administrations that they disagree with.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 06:00 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I think that most of the world subjectively defines evil in the same way.
Evil is a religious concept, defined by different religions in different ways. Evil as a secular concept takes on different meanings again - in a wide variety of ways. Try and find the same dictionary definition - the first three definitions I looked up each defined it differently. Try and have a discussion on what is evil, and agreement will often not be found. So no, most of the world does not define evil in the same way.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 06:04 pm
@vikorr,
I don't believe that. People may phrase their definitions differently, but I think mainstream definitions of evil all boil down to the same thing.
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 06:07 pm
@oralloy,
You're welcome to believe what you want (it is subjective)...though I notice you don't try and post definitions here, which will keep returning different results.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2021 07:10 pm
@vikorr,
I don't know of a good definition (I haven't tried to come up with one or look one up), but I believe that the word means the same thing to most people.
 

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