Guns: how much longer will it take ....

oralloy wrote:

It is unclear to me what your point is.

I'd thought such.

InfraBlue wrote:

I'm saying that pistol grips help increase rate of fire

How could the presence of a pistol grip possibly change a weapon's rate of fire?

InfraBlue wrote:

and shooting accuracy.

Why then are our military snipers so often equipped with weapons that have neither a pistol grip nor a collapsible stock?

I'm saying that pistol grips help increase rate of fire and shooting accuracy.

You have an AR-15 fixation.

That a weapon favored by mass shooters is based on an efficient battlefield killing instrument is not irrelevant trivia.

Your definition of "mass shooter" is suspect.

How does a pistol grip allow a trigger to function quicker?

When did they stop using full-auto/burst-fire firing mechanisms and replace them with faster triggers?

If pistol grips increase shooting accuracy, why are we equipping our military snipers with less accurate weapons?

It allows the triggerman to pull the trigger quicker.

I don't know. Since you're the one making the straw man assertion, you tell me.

All the latest ones I've seen do have pistol grips.

Quote:

I'm saying that pistol grips help increase rate of fire and shooting accuracy.

And I'm saying that you've repeatedly failed to prove what you are claiming. Repeating an unproven claim doesn't change the fact that it is unproven.

You have an AR-15 fixation.

That a weapon favored by mass shooters is based on an efficient battlefield killing instrument is not irrelevant trivia.

Forgetting for the moment that your obsession with the AR-15 caused you to make **** up about it, now you want to shift that obsession onto me. Sorry, but the way it works is that if you try to vilify a gun by making up lies about it, then that's the gun I'm going to talk to you about.

Your definition of "mass shooter" is suspect.

No. You presented a straw man argument, as is your wont, and I reiterated my argument.

Conservative leaning statisticians include counts of mass shootings between involved gun owners, and counts of mass shootings of specific, intentional, innocent targets along with counts of mass shootings of random, unarmed, uninvolved innocent people.

My argument is centered around the latter group.

InfraBlue wrote:

It allows the triggerman to pull the trigger quicker.

How does it do that?

InfraBlue wrote:

I don't know. Since you're the one making the straw man assertion, you tell me.

No such straw man. Since you are claiming that the military is using "quicker trigger pulls" to increase their rate of fire, that suggests that they are no longer relying on full-auto/burst-fire mechanisms for their rapid fire.

Unless I'm misunderstanding part of your argument of course. Are you contending that quicker trigger pulls are the way to faster fire on a gun that's firing rate is governed by its full-auto/burst-fire mechanism? If so, please clarify your position as to how you think this actually works.

InfraBlue wrote:

All the latest ones I've seen do have pistol grips.

I just linked to a number of current sniper rifles that have neither pistol grips nor collapsible stocks.

No. You presented a straw man argument

I was referring to these weapons in general, not the AR-15 specifically.

NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016,
New Senate Report Reveals

The National Rifle Association acted as a "foreign asset" for Russia in the period leading up to
the 2016 election, according to a new investigation unveiled Friday by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore.

Drawing on contemporaneous emails and private interviews, an 18-month probe by the Senate
Finance Committee's Democratic staff found that the NRA underwrote political access for
Russian nationals Maria Butina and Alexander Torshin more than previously known — even
though the two had declared their ties to the Kremlin.

The report, available here, also describes how closely the gun rights group was involved with
organizing a 2015 visit by some of its leaders to Moscow.

Then-NRA vice president Pete Brownell, who would later become NRA president, was enticed
to visit Russia with the promise of personal business opportunities — and the NRA covered a
portion of the trip's costs.

The conclusions of the Senate investigation could have legal implications for the NRA, Wyden
says.

Tax-exempt organizations are barred from using funds for the personal benefit of its officials
or for actions significantly outside their stated missions. The revelations in the Senate report
raise questions about whether the NRA could face civil penalties or lose its tax-exempt status.

Attorneys general in the state of New York and the District of Columbia are conducting
separate probes into alleged wrongdoing at the gun rights organization. These probes have a
broader scope than the Senate report, which focuses on Russia.

By allowing for a more ergonomic grasp of the grip.

Yes, you're misunderstanding my argument. I'm making comparisons between straight grip stocks and rifle grips, not select fire weapons.

There are many sniper rifles with pistol grips, as well.

MGM Agrees to Pay Las Vegas Shooting Victims Up to $800 Million

The settlement would resolve claims that MGM was negligent in allowing the killer to stockpile weapons
and ammunition at its Mandalay Bay hotel.

MGM Resorts International has agreed to pay up to $800 million to settle lawsuits from victims of the
October 2017 mass shooting in Las Vegas that left 58 people dead and hundreds of others injured.

The killer, Stephen Paddock, holed up inside his room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel,
which MGM owns, and then fired into the crowd at a country music festival below. It was the deadliest
mass shooting in modern American history.

One of the lawyers for the victims, Robert Eglet, said on Thursday the settlement would be in the
range of $735 million to $800 million and would resolve “substantially all” of the lawsuits and claims
against MGM related to the massacre.

A real estate agent who was attacked by a man posing as a customer fired a shot at him after he threatened her with a knife and sprayed her with bear mace, according to Commerce City police.

Ernest Robert Chrisman, 43, is charged with two counts of first-degree burglary, attempted aggravated robbery, attempted second-degree kidnapping, menacing and violation of bail bond conditions — all felonies. He also faces a misdemeanor third-degree assault charge and a sentence enhancer of crime of violence, according to an Adams County District Attorney’s Office news release.

The real estate agent told police she was preparing for an open house at a condominium in the Aspen Hills Condominiums in the 14700 block of East 104th Avenue when a man walked in and asked to see the home, Detective Cody Nau wrote in an arrest affidavit. The real estate agent had seen a man knocking to enter the unit next door minutes earlier.

A neighbor’s doorbell camera caught the man entering the residence on video. Chrisman allegedly talked to the real estate agent about the condo and then asked to see the second floor. He told the real estate agent he was a Marine, according to the affidavit.

Chrisman then pulled a knife from his waistband, followed by bear mace, tied to a six-inch piece of rope attached to his belt. Each time he pulled an item from his pants, he would announce what it was to the agent, the document stated. He demanded the woman take her ring off and get in the closet when they were in the master bedroom, according to the affidavit. Her ring is estimated to cost $8,000.

Fearing for her life and saying she was in “disbelief,” the woman drew a handgun from her ankle holster and pointed it at the man who then sprayed her with the bear mace, the documents stated. The real estate agent fired a round at the suspect, who police do not believe was struck, and he fled the residence.
The woman was treated for minor injuries and the suspect had a minor cut, according to the affidavit. The incident also left about $100 in property damage.

The bullet was found in the unit to the south of the condominium she was showing, and police found a Glock 43 9 mm handgun with dried blood at the top side and base of the grip on the kitchen counter when they responded to the scene, according to the affidavit. Detectives also found orange residue on the wall in the master bedroom, consistent with bear repellent. They also found a knife on the bed.
CBI records matched fingerprints found on a brochure for the condo with Chrisman’s and he was found to have two active warrants for failures to appear in court, according to the affidavit. The real estate agent identified Chrisman in a lineup.

Chrisman is being held in the Adams County jail. He is scheduled for a preliminary hearing at 9 a.m., Sept. 4.