57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2018 01:40 am
Not content with murdering innocent women and children the NRA now attacks the doctors who treat them. Are there no depths this foul organisation won't sink to?

It's a pity doctors can't refuse to treat the murdering scum.


Quote:
Guns send 8,300 children to hospital each year in the US, the majority of whom die, while the number of violent gun deaths in America is greater than the Middle East, once armed conflict-related casualties are factored out.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46186510<br />

The NRA is the most successful terrorist group in the World.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2018 06:01 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Yet even though you admit you don't know him you can determine he isent as intelligent as you.

I read and respond to posts, not people. As I said before, I don't know anything about the people behind these posts other than what I might guess based on what I read.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2018 06:51 pm
The question is, How much longer will it take? Not how intelligent a poster may or may not be. We have to get this under control. Daily massacres are never okay.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:37 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

The question is, How much longer will it take? Not how intelligent a poster may or may not be. We have to get this under control. Daily massacres are never okay.

There's no quick solution, because it is a reflection of a much larger, global political conflict that's been going on for centuries. Centralism is the belief that power should be concentrated in central governmental authorities and authorized police and military, and suppressed among the general population. Decentralism, if you want to call it that, is the idea that the people can be responsible for governing themselves and can be trusted with things like weapons to do so.

Now, think about what makes a case for centralism: terror caused by chaos, conflict, violence, abuses, etc. among the people generates support for stronger central governmental authority and disarming of the people.

So there are many ways to stimulate the kind of bad behavior that terrorizes people and evokes their support of stronger central power, rampant drug/sex abuse culture, for example. Think about the song, Welcome to the Jungle, by Guns and Roses and that is the state of society sought by advocates of stronger centralized power.

So in the midst of the turmoil, there are others who know that people are capable of governing their own behavior responsibly, and so we know that there are cultural obstructions to reaching them with this knowledge; but the question is how long we hold out against supporting stronger centralism when the pursuit of liberty seems so ineffective?

We could give in and give up liberty, but then we think of Ben Franklin saying that giving up liberty for security doesn't work, so we have to look for a different path that doesn't sacrifice liberty.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:49 am


They don't have massacres like this in other nations.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 07:01 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

They don't have massacres like this in other nations.

So are you ready to sacrifice liberty for stronger centralized power?
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 07:27 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

Setanta wrote:

They don't have massacres like this in other nations.

So are you ready to sacrifice liberty for stronger centralized power?

If that's your concept of liberty hell yes.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 07:34 am
It's straw man bullshit--it is not established that rational gun control involves a loss of individual freedom, other than the freedom to walk around playing Clint Eastwood in some cheesy, low-budget movie. That member is a fascist hysteric, pretending to value individual liberty.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 07:46 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
pushy leftwing doctors forcing their views onto other people when it's none of their business.

Better than whimpy righwing losers afraid of smart people and trying to make them shut up.
McGentrix
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 03:13 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

They don't have massacres like this in other nations.


Which nations? What time frame, like last week?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 03:46 pm
@Olivier5,
dont ya know. Oralloy has a side business in the emrgency room where he triages gunshot victims.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 05:40 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

If that's your concept of liberty hell yes.

What I mean to ask is are you ready to sacrifice all hope of decentralized self-governance by liberty in favor of a system where central authority bears the responsibility of somehow making individuals behave without them doing so voluntarily?
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 05:53 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
a system where central authority bears the responsibility of somehow making individuals behave without them doing so voluntarily?

Sounds kind of Nazi like to me.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 05:59 pm
@livinglava,
Your concept of government and mine are incompatible.
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:12 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Your concept of government and mine are incompatible.

What a cop out answer. I asked a clear question and you just avoid it.

Let me put it another way: are you ready to go to war with the American people to confiscate all guns and impose harsh penalties on whomever is caught defying gun control?

If you're not willing to take gun control to the levels it would need to be taken to truly stop everyone from owning guns, including the most defiant criminals, then you would only be making law abiding people more vulnerable.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:30 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Doctors are some of the first responders dealing with the innocent victims of out of control gun violence. They have seen first hand the atrocities it inflicts okn innocent people. It sickens them. They've seen first hand it's const in human lives destroyed. You haven't. They have far more of a right to talk about it than you with your armchair theorigizng do.
Any doctors who try to push an anti-freedom agenda on their patients are quickly going to find themselves without any patients.

Any emergency care providers who stop to push an anti-freedom agenda on people seeking emergency care are going to find themselves sued for malpractice.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:33 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Not content with murdering innocent women and children the NRA now attacks the doctors who treat them.
The NRA has not murdered anyone, and has not attacked any doctors.

izzythepush wrote:
Are there no depths this foul organisation won't sink to?
Nothing foul about defending the civil rights of free Americans.

izzythepush wrote:
It's a pity doctors can't refuse to treat the murdering scum.
I realize your lower class as a European serf is upsetting to you, but instead of helplessly railing at free American men, why not struggle for your own freedom?

izzythepush wrote:
The NRA is the most successful terrorist group in the World.
Don't be silly.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:34 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
The question is, How much longer will it take? Not how intelligent a poster may or may not be. We have to get this under control. Daily massacres are never okay.
It's going to be awhile.

The gun control movement is not even interested in solving any problems. They only want to violate people's rights for fun.

The gun rights movement has to devote all of our energy to protecting America's civil liberties.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:35 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
They don't have massacres like this in other nations.
Massacres like what? Like the one Anders Breivik committed in Norway?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2018 06:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
livinglava wrote:
So are you ready to sacrifice liberty for stronger centralized power?
If that's your concept of liberty hell yes.
This is why it is important to vote for Trump. He will protect us from people who want to abolish freedom and civil rights.
0 Replies
 
 

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