57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2018 06:59 pm
With eye at curbing gun violence, Gov. John Kasich signs executive order
Updated 7:21 PM; Posted 5:42 PM
Gov. John Kasich's executive order

By Laura Hancock, cleveland.com [email protected]

COLUMBUS, Gov. John Kasich signed an executive order late Monday afternoon requiring Ohio law enforcement to upload certain protection orders and warrants into a database that could prevent people from illegally buying firearms.

The executive order comes with a 39-page report showing gaps in crime reporting to the database, including a survey that found 39 percent of responding agencies didn't report any felony warrants to the system. Just 21 percent of respondents entered all civil protection orders into the system.

The executive order, which goes into effect immediately, includes sanctions to law enforcement agencies that don't comply, including financial penalties and loss of access to the database.

Kasich, a Republican, believes people will support the executive order and other efforts he's making to ensure warrants and protection orders are reported.

"We just had another tragedy in Cincinnati," he said. "Unfortunately, in this area it just goes on and on and on. Any way we can improve this I think is a worthy endeavor."

In March, Kasich proposed six gun policy changes, including efforts to require another branch of government - the courts - to report conviction information to a state database, which eventually gets into the federal database. The policy changes came after Kasich spoke to people on different sides of the gun debate.

Many of Kasich's proposals ended up in House Bill 585 and Senate Bill 288, sponsored by fellow Republicans. But the bills haven't moved beyond committee hearings.

Most Republicans in Ohio General Assembly, where the GOP holds a supermajority, don't want to touch anything that could be interpreted as gun control.

Many law enforcement agencies are not submitting information to the database because they don't have enough staff, don't fully understand how the database prevents people from illegally purchasing guns or lack the technology to upload fingerprints -- one of the requirements for the database, according to the report.

Kasich signed a separate executive order Monday that makes permanent a working group that has been studying how information is sent to the database. The working group compiled the information in the report.

The working group is made up of representatives of the Ohio Supreme Court, various police and sheriff's departments, state agencies, local governments and even Cuyahoga County Clerk of Courts Laura Black.

Kasich tasked it to take its recommendations -- which range from training and education to reducing duplicative or unclear reporting responsibilities -- and come up with a concrete plan for how they can be implemented.

Kasich said there is some money available to help local law enforcement better report. However, he acknowledged some of the gaps in reporting won't be filled for years -- after he's left office.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:23 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
So one high school shooting will get weeks or months of coverage: FL, and another will get days of coverage: TX, all because of the gun used and the way they "glamorize" the event.
No, the mass shooting in Texas killed 10 people and it happened when people were still reeling after the Florida shooting, which killed 17 people and which had occurred only a few months before.

The United States is the only developed country where this crazy killing goes on. Now, after contributing so heartily to mass shootings gripping the nation, the NRA wants to use the fact that some mass shootings don't use AR-15s to prevent laws being passed to limit the availability of semiauto versions of military assault rifles. Unbelievable.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:32 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Whether an AR-15 is used is irrelevant.

Widespread news coverage of massacres encourages more massacres.
Let the reporter/website/blogger decide which details are important, and the readers or viewers can accept or reject as they see fit. For what it's worth, people ALWAYS want to know the details of crimes and murders. Who can forget OJ and the Bronco?

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
There is no such distinction. The left will use any massacre as an excuse for trying to violate civil rights.
And the right will try to make it a civil rights issue that anyone can buy enough high powered firearms to commit a massacre. And that is supposed to be okay.
Region Philbis
 
  5  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 03:17 am


http://i68.tinypic.com/2qa0e4w.jpg
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 08:00 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Let the reporter/website/blogger decide which details are important, and the readers or viewers can accept or reject as they see fit. For what it's worth, people ALWAYS want to know the details of crimes and murders. Who can forget OJ and the Bronco?
If we don't curtail media coverage of the massacres, the massacres will continue.

Blickers wrote:
And the right will try to make it a civil rights issue that anyone can buy enough high powered firearms to commit a massacre.
The civil rights issue is the requirement that guns can be restricted only if that restriction can be justified with a good reason.

The Founding Fathers are responsible for our Constitutional rights. These rights were set in stone long before the modern right rose as a political force.

Blickers wrote:
And that is supposed to be okay.
Yes. Our freedom is what makes America such a wonderful country.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 08:01 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
after contributing so heartily to mass shootings gripping the nation, the NRA
Hold on here. The NRA has not contributed to mass shootings in any way.

Blickers wrote:
wants to use the fact that some mass shootings don't use AR-15s to prevent laws being passed to limit the availability of semiauto versions of military assault rifles.
The reason why it is unconstitutional to ban AR-15s is because there is no justification for such a ban.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 08:15 am
@oralloy,
The NRA has contributed to the rise of mass shootings in every way, by strongly supporting the re-legalization of assault style rifles coming from the factory in semiauto mode. Moreover, the gun advocates have shifted their emphasis from weapons used for hunting, which used to be their main focus, to military style weapons designed to shoot people. No wonder we have mass shootings in this country, which no other developed country has.

PS: It is totally constitutional to ban AR-15 style weapons, just as it is totally constitutional to ban machine guns.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 09:13 am
@Region Philbis,
The "same" people who think the media had the same effect it does now in 1982 are in a fantasy world.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:28 am
@neptuneblue,
This is actual reasonable change to curb gun crimes. If a major part of the problem is crimes being committed by people who are not allowed to have guns legally, then this will indeed help. What type of abuse can resort from this sort of change? I don't see one up front as it only deals with city, county and State agencies reporting on all protection orders and warrants into a central system that is then used in the background check system. I would hope this would also include the removal of those orders just as quickly but that doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article. I would support such a law in my own state.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:36 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
The NRA has contributed to the rise of mass shootings in every way, by strongly supporting the re-legalization of assault style rifles coming from the factory in semiauto mode.
Having pistol grips on rifles does not contribute to mass shootings in any way.

Blickers wrote:
Moreover, the gun advocates have shifted their emphasis from weapons used for hunting, which used to be their main focus, to military style weapons designed to shoot people.
Having pistol grips on rifles does not make them unsuitable for hunting. Neither does it mean that they are designed to shoot people.

Blickers wrote:
No wonder we have mass shootings in this country, which no other developed country has.
The mass shootings are inspired by the media coverage given to previous mass shootings. The NRA has nothing to do with that.

Blickers wrote:
PS: It is totally constitutional to ban AR-15 style weapons, just as it is totally constitutional to ban machine guns.
That is incorrect. Restrictions that cannot be justified with a good reason are unconstitutional.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:44 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
No, the mass shooting in Texas killed 10 people and it happened when people were still reeling after the Florida shooting, which killed 17 people and which had occurred only a few months before.

Why should the # of dead make a difference in the killing of high school kids? 10, 17 or 30, it makes no sense that the lack of dead kids made a difference on the news coverage. It was all about the weapons and the kids at the school attacking the NRA, so the media used them as stooges to push their anti-gun agenda.

I'll say it again, the media doesn't care about shootings that take place with anything but "assault weapons", they have an agenda and if the story doesn't fit the agenda, they won't spend the same time and energy.

Quote:
The United States is the only developed country where this crazy killing goes on. Now, after contributing so heartily to mass shootings gripping the nation, the NRA wants to use the fact that some mass shootings don't use AR-15s to prevent laws being passed to limit the availability of semiauto versions of military assault rifles. Unbelievable.

You can stop with the BS of the NRA contributing to mass shootings, their very point that a majority of these shootings are not done with the guns you want banned is why it pisses you off. Their facts trump your emotions, our Constitution trumps your emotions. Neptune posted an article about OH trying to pass a better reporting law for warrants and protection orders, but the Gov of OH had to do it via an EO. If you want to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, this is a much better step than just banning the guns for the vast majority of owners who have no intention of shooting up anything.
It also shows your bias against AR-15's when you continue to call them "semiauto version of military assault rifles", which has zero meaning in the real world and only has meaning in the anti-gun world. Propaganda designed to limit the 2nd Amendment and then remove it completely.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:59 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
The NRA has contributed to the rise of mass shootings in every way

Replace media with NRA and you have a point.

Quote:
by strongly supporting the re-legalization of assault style rifles coming from the factory in semiauto mode.

What re-legalization and what does "coming from the factory in semi-auto mode" mean? Do you even know what semi-auto means? Pull the trigger one time and it shoots one bullet. Nothing more nothing less.

Quote:
Moreover, the gun advocates have shifted their emphasis from weapons used for hunting, which used to be their main focus, to military style weapons designed to shoot people.

What emphasis? These "military assault rifles" as you like to call them are used in many different shooting sports to include hunting. Whoever told you there is no need for these guns in hunting has never hunted either hogs or coyotes. You have no idea what people use these guns for and your lack of knowledge shows in your words and wants. You argue from a point of ignorance but it is only self-induced ignorance as you refuse to learn the facts and use propaganda instead.

Quote:
PS: It is totally constitutional to ban AR-15 style weapons, just as it is totally constitutional to ban machine guns.

"Machine guns" or fully-automatic guns are not banned, they are heavily restricted. I would have no problems with the restrictions on these guns being partially lifted, as in the restrictions on only allowing guns beings sold that were made before 1986, keep the rest of the restrictions in place, to include enhanced background checks and a stamp from the feds, but allow newer guns into the market.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:07 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Having pistol grips on rifles does not contribute to mass shootings in any way.
Allowing military assault style rifles to be sold in semiauto mode from the factory does contribute to mass killings. These things clearly are not designed to shoot deer. They are designed for military use.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Having pistol grips on rifles does not contribute to mass shootings in any way.
Allowing rifles to be marketed with a feature which is ONLY useful when fired in automatic mode is an inducement to convert the semiauto assault rifle to automatic mode. And automatic mode is not used in hunting.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Having pistol grips on rifles does not make them unsuitable for hunting. Neither does it mean that they are designed to shoot people.
The only purpose of pistol grips to better control the weapon when it is in automatic mode. They have no other purpose. Automatic mode is a military mode, not a hunting mode at all. Although I'm sure you will find some YouTube video where a guy uses a fully automatic rifle to kill game and then swear on camera that automatic mode is the best mode for hunting there is.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:12 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
Why should the # of dead make a difference in the killing of high school kids? 10, 17 or 30, it makes no sense that the lack of dead kids made a difference on the news coverage. It was all about the weapons and the kids at the school attacking
Florida had more kids killed and happened months earlier. That's why it received more coverage.

Why do you post this baloney?
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2018 11:18 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote Baldimo:
Quote:
"Machine guns" or fully-automatic guns are not banned, they are heavily restricted. I would have no problems with the restrictions on these guns being partially lifted, as in the restrictions on only allowing guns beings sold that were made before 1986, keep the rest of the restrictions in place, to include enhanced background checks and a stamp from the feds, but allow newer guns into the market.
You read it here first, folks. Baldimo thinks the problem with America is that fully automatic machine guns are too tightly restricted. Baldimo feels availability needs to be increased.
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 02:37 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
If we don't curtail media coverage of the massacres, the massacres will continue.
We get media coverage of a lot of your massacres. They aren't inspiring masacres here.

Quote:
The Founding Fathers are responsible for our Constitutional rights. These rights were set in stone long before the modern right rose as a political force.
Set in stone is not really the correct term, because they've ammended it.... How many times?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 02:47 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
It was all about the weapons and the kids at the school attacking the NRA, so the media used them as stooges to push their anti-gun agenda.

I'll say it again, the media doesn't care about shootings that take place with anything but "assault weapons", they have an agenda and if the story doesn't fit the agenda, they won't spend the same time and energy.
Their agenda is money. They achieve this through ratings, which allows them bargaining power to sell advertising. What seems to bring them ratings is:
- playing on peoples emotions (fear, outrage, sadness etc)
- trying to elicit those emotions as strongly as possible (sensationalisation, narrow perspectives, omitting balancing information)
- reinforcing popular paradigms (allows them to play on peoples associated emotions more easily)
- implying blame <triggers the outrage response>

The above is part of the reasons I don't watch TV news, on principle (the other major one being it's all negative)

As people who are supportive of all types of firearms in society are not going to emotionally buy into the gun aspect of such stories much...but people who hate how easy guns can make massing do get emotionally upset...the media will play to the audience they can generate the most emotions in.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 05:01 am

Actually... You only need to read the news from England and Europe for about two days to comprehend why Americans insist upon retaining the second amendment to our Constitution. Seems to me to be a no-brainer...

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 05:33 am
Ebay refusing to deal with firearms is the kind of vacuum which nature abhors....

https://www.gunbroker.com
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2018 05:42 am
Vepr, the best of the Kalashnikov/AK style rifles, various calibers including the Russian heavy 30-cal (7.62x54)

https://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/search?Keywords=vepr&Sort=13
0 Replies
 
 

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