57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 01:52 am
@Glennn,
You seem to be a specialist in these matters Glenn, so let me ask: if I want to kill as many children as possible per minute of firing, which gun should I go for?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 03:47 am
@Olivier5,
Why are liberals always so interested in killing children?

Your question is almost as creepy as when that liberal tried to ask me at what age children transition from CXP1 to CXP2.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 03:54 am
@oralloy,
Just trying to pick you guys' brain about what guns are the most efficient in terms of killing a large number of children in a short time. Just assume the children are Italian or Palestinian, if that makes it easier for you to answer the question.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 04:13 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Just trying to pick you guys' brain about what guns are the most efficient in terms of killing a large number of children in a short time.
I know. And it's creepy. I got the same sort of question from a liberal (I don't remember who, but it was here on a2k) after the Sandy Hook shooting.

Olivier5 wrote:
Just assume the children are Italian or Palestinian, if that makes it easier for you to answer the question.
Israel only shoots Palestinians in self defense.

I think the best answer for Italy is to start dronestriking all their judges along with all the suspected terrorists that we dronestrike.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 04:24 am
@oralloy,
I find creepy those people who treat the issue of gun control as a joke. The focus should be on how to reduce the frequency and lethality of mass murders, in schools or otherwise. Hence my question.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 05:13 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
The focus should be on how to reduce the frequency and lethality of mass murders, in schools or otherwise. Hence my question.
Someone who wanted to maximize a massacre would want to be able to reload quickly so they could keep up a rapid stream of fire. A large ammo capacity so they would not have to reload as often would also further their goals.
0 Replies
 
sceletera
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 07:22 am
@Glennn,
One needs only look at uncontroverted facts that exist in court rulings.
http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/141945A.P.pdf
Quote:
In support of its motion for summary judgment, the State
proffered extensive uncontroverted evidence demonstrating that
the assault weapons outlawed by the FSA are exceptionally lethal
weapons of war.3
You should look up the word uncontroverted.
Quote:
the AR-15
— is simply the semiautomatic version of the M16 rifle used by
our military and others around the world. Accord Staples v.
United States, 511 U.S. 600, 603 (1994) (observing that “[t]he
AR-15 is the civilian version of the military’s M-16 rifle, and
is, unless modified, a semiautomatic weapon”).

Quote:
In combat-style testing
conducted in 1959, it was “discovered that a 7- or even 5-man
squad armed with AR-15s could do as well or better in hit-andkill
potential . . . than the traditional 11-man squad armed
with M14 rifles,” which were the heavier selective-fire rifles
then used by soldiers in the Army. See J.A. 930.4 Subsequent
field testing in Vietnam, in 1962, revealed the AR-15 “to be a
very lethal combat weapon” that was “well-liked . . . for its
size and light recoil.” Id. at 968. Reports from that testing
indicated that “the very high-velocity AR-15 projectiles” had
caused “[a]mputations of limbs, massive body wounds, and
decapitations.” Id.

Quote:
The difference between the fully automatic and
semiautomatic versions of those firearms is slight. That is,
the automatic firing of all the ammunition in a large-capacity
thirty-round magazine takes about two seconds, whereas a
semiautomatic rifle can empty the same magazine in as little as
five seconds. See, e.g., J.A. 1120 (“[S]emiautomatic weapons
can be fired at rates of 300 to 500 rounds per minute, making
them virtually indistinguishable in practical effect from
machineguns.”). Moreover, soldiers and police officers are
often advised to choose and use semiautomatic fire, because it
is more accurate and lethal than automatic fire in many combat
and law enforcement situations.
The AR-15, semiautomatic AK-47, and other assault weapons
banned by the FSA have a number of features designed to achieve
their principal purpose — “killing or disabling the enemy” on
the battlefield. S
sceletera
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 07:26 am
@sceletera,
Quote:
Several manufacturers of the banned assault weapons, in
advertising them to the civilian market, tout their products’
battlefield prowess. Colt’s Manufacturing Company boasts that
its AR-15 rifles are manufactured “based on the same military
standards and specifications as the United States issue Colt M16
rifle and M4 carbine.” See J.A. 1693. Bushmaster describes its
Adaptive Combat Rifle as “the ultimate military combat weapons
system” that is “built specifically for law enforcement and
tactical markets.” Id. at 1697.
In short, like their fully automatic counterparts, the
banned assault weapons “are firearms designed for the
battlefield, for the soldier to be able to shoot a large number
of rounds across a battlefield at a high rate of speed.” See
J.A. 206. Their design results in “a capability for lethality —
more wounds, more serious, in more victims — far beyond that of
other firearms in general, including other semiautomatic guns.”


Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 07:53 am
@sceletera,
You didn't answer the question. Now, how is an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle any more like a select-fire M-16 rifle than any other semiautomatic rifle?

So far, your answer is that it looks like a weapon that the military uses. Now, in your own words, how does the looks of the AR-15 make it any different from any other semiautomatic rifle?
sceletera
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:08 am
@Glennn,
http://www.emilitarymanuals.com/ar15m16.htm

Can you figure out why the AR-15 is more like an M-16 than other rifles when they share the same repair manual?


Quote:
The original AR-15, designed in 1959, became the M16 after Colt acquired the manufacturing rights in 1962 and it became the main weapon of our troops in the Vietnam conflict.


Your question is idiotic. Do you really want to be seen as this stupid by other gun owners?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:10 am
@sceletera,
sceletera wrote:
One needs only look at uncontroverted facts that exist in court rulings.
A pointless reference to irrelevant trivia doesn't answer any questions.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:11 am
@sceletera,
sceletera wrote:
Your question is idiotic. Do you really want to be seen as this stupid by other gun owners?
His question is neither idiotic nor stupid. You are making claims that are contrary to reality, and it is perfectly reasonable for him to point out that your claims are contrary to reality.
0 Replies
 
sceletera
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:12 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
Colt’s Manufacturing Company boasts that
its AR-15 rifles are manufactured “based on the same military
standards and specifications as the United States issue Colt M16
rifle



Why would the manufacturer claim it used the same specifications as the M-16 if they were no more alike than the M-16 is to a Mossberg Plinkster?
sceletera
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:17 am
@oralloy,
As usual, you can't refute the facts so you just claim it has no meaning.
Do you also argue that DC can ban hand guns because the Heller ruling is only trivia?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:35 am
@sceletera,
sceletera wrote:
As usual, you can't refute the facts so you just claim it has no meaning.
No. I don't bother to refute irrelevant trivia because I prefer to focus on the subject of the conversation.

sceletera wrote:
Do you also argue that DC can ban hand guns because the Heller ruling is only trivia?
I argue that the Second Amendment protects our ancient right to have weapons that are suitable for self defense.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:42 am
@sceletera,
sceletera wrote:
Why would the manufacturer claim it used the same specifications as the M-16 if they were no more alike than the M-16 is to a Mossberg Plinkster?
Because the manufacturer is talking about specifications for internal components of the gun, which is an entirely different subject from the question of whether the gun has full auto capabilities.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Jul, 2018 08:43 am
@sceletera,
Quote:
Can you figure out why the AR-15 is more like an M-16 than other rifles when they share the same repair manual?

Sharing the same repair manual has nothing to do with the fact that one is semiautomatic, and one is not. So how is the AR-15 any more like a select-fire M-16 than other semiautomatic rifles? You're dancing around this question. So far, all you've offered is an appeal to authority, and you know what that's worth, right?
So, in your own words, how is an AR-15 any more like a select-fire M-16 than any other semiautomatic rifle?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 04:47 pm
@sceletera,
Quote:
But even when the work was done, rather than accept it you are making excuses and trying to deflect from what the statistics actually say. Your response below is riddled with math and factual errors. I will include my response with red.

The work wasn't done actually, she posted shooting from 2012 to 2018, you decided to use shootings from 1999-2005, when I asked her about the previous 6 years. Why the gap in years?

I know why the gap in years and the limit of 10 dead, it removed a whole bunch of shootings from 2006-2012 were there were less than 10 killed but fit the definition of a mass shooting. There were at least 3 that you ignored because they were killed with an AK-47 and had 8 or 9 dead. Skipping these stats made the mass shootings look like there were less earlier so that you can make the later shootings look like an increase.

The dishonest way in which you tried to put forth the argument by changing the years, 1999-2005 instead of 2005-2011, the 6 years prior to the claims Blickers made, you were looking at to fit your agenda is weak.


0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2018 01:42 pm
It seems the 9th Circuit Court has finally made an actual ruling on the Constitution and agreed with the injunction from a San Diego court. The ban on "high capacity" magazines is still on hold in CA and it looks like this will end up being another win for the 2nd Amendment. The CA Dept of Justice is going to continue their push to infringe on the US citizens 2nd Amendment rights until they get to the SCOTUS where they will lose. I'm happy we can show the state of CA for the UnConstitutional socialists they really are.
https://reason.com/volokh/2018/07/17/ninth-circuit-upholds-preliminary-injunc

Quote:
Today the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a federal district count injunction against a California law to confiscate firearms magazines that hold over 10 rounds. The Ninth Circuit's 2-1 opinion is here, and the dissent is here. My analysis of the 2017 district court opinion is here.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2018 03:37 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
until they get to the SCOTUS where they will lose.
I'm not so sure about that. Nonsense about pistol grips is sure to be struck down as having no justification, but restrictions on ammo capacity could be justified as an effort to limit massacres.

Unless the left polarizes everything so severely with their crazed attempts to violate the Second Amendment that the justices just vote on a party line to strike down any gun law that they see.
0 Replies
 
 

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