Obama..... not religious?

@DrewDad,

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The Old Testament tells us what the god of the Bible feels about certain things...

No, it tells what the people who wrote those passages in the Old Testament felt about certain things.

Really!

So, if I wrote, “the character Don Quixote tilted against windmills”...you would respond, “No...that is just what Cervantes wrote about Don Quixote?”

C'mon, use your brain...or grow one.

The god of the Bible...whether real or fictional...expresses sentiments about certain activities. Whether those words are there because a real GOD spoke them to Moses...or because a bunch of ancient Hebrews decided to put their feelings into a god they invented...

...the words are there.

But of course, Christians like you are hypocrites enough to try to weasel your way past the obvious.

Hey, it doesn't make you a bad person....and watching you guys do this is actually quite enjoyable.

(By the way, I know I do not know if it is fiction or real...and I guess you don't either, so I gotta wonder why you are so certain it is fiction.)

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The New Testament does not tell us that the god changed its mind on any of that stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_homosexuality
Quote:
The Bible, both in the Old and New Testament, includes several passages that have frequently been interpreted to deem homosexuality sinful; however, those who disagree often offer alternative interpretations. The most commonly cited verses are Genesis 19:4-29, Leviticus 20:13 and Leviticus 18:22 in the Old Testament, and Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:10 in the New Testament. Christians generally accept these verses as Scripture but differ about how to interpret them and how they apply to contemporary situations.
(emphasis mine)

Goodness! Christians having a disagreement; however could that have happened? Except Frank apparently gets to decide who the real Christians are....

Ahhh, I understand. You are saying there are lots of different ways to rationalize the absurdities of the Bible...and lots of Christians are willing to be hypocritical enough to pretend passages as direct and unambiguous as the ones from Leviticus and Deuteronomy can be “interpreted.”

What a laugh!

Incredible!

So...we have Christians who can interpret “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” to mean...ahhh, don't worry about it. You can even make them priests and ministers...and even bishops if you want.

******* hypocrisy on a galactic scale!!!!

But better than most television programs as entertainment!

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

God is a character in a book called the bible. His appearances in the Bible mark him as psychotic. And as Frank notes, there is nothing in the New Testament where God takes anything back.

0 Replies

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
Let me be clear: Stop making claims about how others should interpret the Bible, because despite your belief, you are not God.

Why should he stop? Everyone can make claims about the interpretation any other book, and they don't have to be god to make them. Why should the interpretation of the Bible be any different? It's just another book for Wotan's sake!

Again, "how others should interpret." He's free to interpret however he likes, but I ain't that impressed. I'll interpret my way and won't force it on him, either, OK?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Christians like you

I'm not a Christian; I just talk to a lot of them.

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

If when you say "God" you mean "God as portrayed in the Old Testament is a mean bastard who kills children for making fun of bald guys", then I'll agree.

1) In the context of discussing Christianity, what else could it possibly mean?

2) I'm a little bit surprised that you single out the Old Testament. But since the god character doesn't make an appearance in the New Testament, I suppose it makes no difference.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Quote:

Again, "how others should interpret." He's free to interpret however he likes, but I ain't that impressed. I'll interpret my way and won't force it on him, either, OK?

I am not doing any "interpreting" here. I am simply reading the words.

Put either of these next two statements into a context that can change the meaning of what is plainly written:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman,
both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed;
they have forfeited their lives.”

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess...such slaves
you may own as chattels, and leave to your sons as their
hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves."

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

You are saying there are lots of different ways to rationalize the absurdities of the Bible...and lots of Christians are willing to be hypocritical ...

Life is absurd, and everyone is a hypocrite to some degree. No one can live their life without one rule coming into conflict with another and having to make a compromise formation.

Deal with it.

The Bible is not a handbook, as much as you want to claim it is. Just as people interpret El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha, people interpret the Bible.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

DrewDad and JPB -- since you are not impressed with what you call Frank's interpretation, could you tell us what your interpretation of these passages is?

Quote:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman,
both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed;
they have forfeited their lives.”

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess...such slaves
you may own as chattels, and leave to your sons as their
hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves."

1 Reply

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
If when you say "God" you mean "God as portrayed in the Old Testament is a mean bastard who kills children for making fun of bald guys", then I'll agree.

1) In the context of discussing Christianity, what else could it possibly mean?

Surely you (and Frank) enjoy it when you make fun of "God the character in the Bible" and people get pissed thinking that you're making fun of their personal beliefs. (Which you are, really, because you encourage them to think that way, and then duck behind the "I was only discussing God as a character in a book" defense.)

The whole "I was just kidding" defense is really aggressive.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad, you wrote:

Quote:

The Bible is not a handbook, as much as you want to claim it is. Just as people interpret El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha, people interpret the Bible.

This was in response to my comment:

Quote:

So, if I wrote, “the character Don Quixote tilted against windmills”...you would respond, “No...that is just what Cervantes wrote about Don Quixote?”

I see!

So you apparently are saying that your answer to my question is, "YES."

If I did write, “the character Don Quixote tilted against windmills”...you actually would respond, “No...that is just what Cervantes wrote about Don Quixote?”

No wonder you are where you are on this issue!!!!!!!!

If you are not just bullshitting me here, because you see your arguments being destroyed one after the other...you must be a beauty in a casual discussion.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

DrewDad and JPB -- since you are not impressed with what you call Frank's interpretation, could you tell us what your interpretation of these passages is?

I think it's interesting, in an academic way, but it is not applicable to modern life.

Just like the dietary rules about shellfish.

Isn't there also some sanitation rule about not defecating within the boundaries of a town?

Life changes; hopefully for the better.

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

Sounds like you are saying the Bible is a bunch of bullshit.

That would be my guess also.

Why not just say it that way....rather than go through all the contortions and twisting of logic and language?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

So you apparently are saying that your answer to my question is, "YES."

If I did write, “the character Don Quixote tilted against windmills”...you actually would respond, “No...that is just what Cervantes wrote about Don Quixote?”

No, actually, because you're clear here that you're discussing a character in a story.

There is a difference, though, in saying "the character God as portrayed in the Bible" and "God", and you encourage people to conflate the two.

Frank Apisa wrote:

No wonder you are where you are on this issue!!!!!!!!

I think you're seeing what you want to see.

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you are not just bullshitting me here, because you see your arguments being destroyed one after the other...you must be a beauty in a casual discussion.

Can't bullshit a bullshitter, I'm sure.

3 Replies

@DrewDad,

I wasn't asking about the relevance of the passage to your life. I was asking about your interpretation of the text. What do the passages say about the Biblical god's position on gay sex and slavery?

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

Quote:

There is a difference, though, in saying "the character God as portrayed in the Bible" and "God", and you encourage people to conflate the two.

I have been talking about the god of the Bible right along.

Why do you build these strawmen?

Are you that inadequate?

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sounds like you are saying the Bible is a bunch of bullshit.

That would be my guess also.

Why not just say it that way....rather than go through all the contortions and twisting of logic and language?

You're the contortionist, here.

Like any great work of literature, there are gems to be found among the manure.

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

And since I have been steadfast in using the term "the god of the Bible"...and not doing what you pretend I have been doing here...

...let's see if you have the integrity to acknowledge that you were dead wrong here.

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

Quote:

There is a difference, though, in saying "the character God as portrayed in the Bible" and "God", and you encourage people to conflate the two.

That's a logical enough position for atheists, agnostics, and believers in non-Abrahamic religions. They -- no, make that "we" -- don't assume that what the Bible says about god has anything to do with any gods that might actually exist. But if you call yourself a Christian, liberal or not, you are stating that on some level, you actually believe this stuff in the Bible. If you can't believe it without compartmentalizing, what's keeping you from taking the next step and quit calling yourself a Christian?

1 Reply

@Thomas,

And, as I said, I never referred to "God." I have throughout this discussion confined myself to what the "god of the Bible" says about things.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That's how I understood you, as well.

0 Replies

Obama..... not religious?

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