43
   

Obama..... not religious?

 
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:13 am
@okie,
Hey, sugar, Big Business has totally taken over government. While you're busy wailing about the Obama and the Constitution what you fail to realize is that Wall Street and Big Business ripped it up years ago.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:14 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Perhaps, you were too busy working on the campaign to have read the newspapers. People across the country were up in arms. There was as much citizen concern over his background as there was over Kennedy's Catholicism.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:35 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Perhaps, you were too busy working on the campaign to have read the newspapers.
Certainly NOT; I was very keenly interested in the newspapers, mostly NY Times and NY Daily News;
sometimes, the NY Post. I was very attentive, mostly because of the campaign itself.
I don't remember a problem with this.



plainoldme wrote:
People across the country were up in arms.
WHAT "people" ?? Goldwater was not a Jew.
We were criticised for several things, but we had no problem with THAT !




plainoldme wrote:
There was as much citizen concern over his background as there was over Kennedy's Catholicism.
I remember THAT.
The theory of that (which did not prove to be justified)
was that if he were a faithful Catholic, he 'd allegedly feel a duty
to obay the Pope (the head of another State) as a representative of God.
Kennedy WAS a Catholic.
Goldwater was NOT a Jew.





David
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:52 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Hey, sugar, Big Business has totally taken over government. While you're busy wailing about the Obama and the Constitution what you fail to realize is that Wall Street and Big Business ripped it up years ago.

And some of us are still waiting for the crooks in the government and at Fannie and Freddie to be held to account, for their part in helping to set up policies that helped bring about the beginnings of this entire financial meltdown. It won't happen because it is the Democrats and Obama's buddies that are to blame. Instead, he and apparently you would rather blame the private business interests, so that the program of moving socialism and an all powerful government forward. And for your information, I think execs are still being coddled and paid obsene sums of money at thos quasi- government loan organizations, apparently with full blessing of Obama. And last I checked, a tax cheat is still heading the IRS, by the name of Timothy Geithner.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:23 am
@okie,
Big Business has destroyed this country, moving jobs overseas, multiplying cookie cutter stores throughout the country, increasing the cost of doing business, keeping salaries low for the majority of the workers.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:25 am

It looks like Plain is not going to tell us WHO
allegedly were "up in arms."





David
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:32 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Jesus Christ, David. Do you remember the names of your neighbors in 1964? I was still in high school then and plenty of people were against him for his name and background. There were skits on television about it, articles in the newspapers . . . on that and about how his defense policy was: draw the wagon trains into a circle.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:38 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Jesus Christ, David. Do you remember the names of your neighbors in 1964?
Kelly and Russo. So what ??



plainoldme wrote:
I was still in high school then and plenty of people were against him for his name and background. There were skits on television about it, articles in the newspapers . . . on that and about how his defense policy was: draw the wagon trains into a circle.
U claim that there was trouble, controversy about his being a Jew, which was NOT the case.
Skits and discussions concerned many other matters,
e.g. fighting the Reds.

U r fabricating fony history, Plain.





David
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:43 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Chalk it up to your age, DAvid. Enough.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:45 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Chalk it up to your age, DAvid. Enough.
I 'll chalk it up to unsuccessfully attempted deception from u, PLain.





David
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:24 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Goldwater's background on his father's side was Jewish.

Quote:
The retired senator, an Episcopalian whose father was Jewish, also was remembered this week as an avid supporter of the local Jewish community and a staunch defender of Israel.



<snip>


Quote:

Plotkin, who celebrated 50 years in the rabbinate this year - more than 40 of those years spent here in the Valley, was one of two clergy who officiated at Goldwater's funeral service June 3 at Gammage Auditorium in Tempe.

"I knew Barry from the first week I came to town. Harry Rosenzweig (of Rosenzweig's Jewelers) - was his best friend, and Harry gave a welcoming reception for me at his home," Plotkin told Jewish News in an interview after the funeral.

"(Goldwater) contributed financially to the building of (Temple Beth Israel) at 10th Avenue and Flower. He said to me that he was very proud of his Jewish background, although when he was raised here, there was no Jewish synagogue. His mother took them all to church at Trinity Episcopal Church; that's where he was baptized.

"Today, I gave him the full Jewish rites, read the Hebrew El Mole prayer, and recited a blessing for him at the very end. ... Susan Goldwater (his widow, who is a convert to Judaism) wanted something Jewish at Barry's funeral. ... I was very honored to be there, to represent the Jewish community."

Plotkin co-officiated with the Rev. Carl Carlozzi of All Saints Episcopal, where Plotkin is rabbi in residence.

Jerry Lewkowitz, a Temple Beth Israel member whose parents were among the synagogue's founders, was also a friend of Goldwater. Lewkowitz said one reason Goldwater had strong ties to the Jewish community was that he grew up alongside several of the Valley's earliest Jewish families.



<snip>

Quote:
The issue of Goldwater's religious background occasionally surfaced in the public arena, particularly after he earned the Republican presidential nomination in 1964.


http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/980605/goldwatr.shtml


~~~


one full point to POM
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:38 am
Quote:
GSC:
For what it's worth--and this seems right based upon the clip from the HBO documentary--one web site claims that the Goldwater quote I referenced above was from his October '64 speech at Madison Square Garden, and he said: "The Nazi and the Fascist types -- the bigots -- they're not going to vote for me because my grandfather was a Polish Jew."

FYI, his grandfather was born in (what had been) Poland, but his grandmother was English (and Jewish). Goldwater's father converted when he married Barry's mother. One could argue that by discussing only his grandfather in the speech, he was trying to reduce his "Jewish blood" to 25%, but I think be adding the Polish part, it added to his "foreigness," and his father did convert. (I can't imagine many anti-semites having a problem with someone 1/2 jewish but not 1/4, so I don't think that the reference to his grandfather was very calculating.)

The HBO documentary also had Robert MacNeil (I believe) of MacNeil Lehrer fame tell one of Goldwater's favorite stories of going to play golf and being told jews can't play. Goldwater responds with, "But I'm only half Jewish, can I play 9 holes?" I have always loved that story and had just told it to my wife shortly before it was on the documentary.


http://volokh.com/posts/1158759790.shtml

Seems the HBO documentary's got a lot of the background.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 12:57 pm
@okie,
Like Dick Cheney?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:20 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You are off the deep end. Just because you forgot something doesn't mean others didn't. William F. Buckley reported in his eulogy for Goldwater upon his death of the opposition that Jews held toward the Senator: http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/1998200511170839.asp

This rather long article opens with a note that Goldwater's Jewish background was downplayed during his presidential campaign:
http://parentseyes.arizona.edu/bloom/v13goldwater.htm

I spent some time on line but I think Goldwater is too long dead to be of much interest, although I did find mention in a blog of how his campaign staff had emphasized that his ancestors were "Polish" immigrants and not Jewish. This was repeated in ways that demonstrate they were not from a common source in several other blogs.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:24 pm
@ehBeth,
I found some of the same material, including the golf joke.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 02:16 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Big Business has destroyed this country, moving jobs overseas, multiplying cookie cutter stores throughout the country, increasing the cost of doing business, keeping salaries low for the majority of the workers.

Absolute hogwash. Businesses do what they do, make a profit and provide goods and services desired and needed by the citizens of this country, which is of course a rather foreign notion to government bureaucracies which produce nothing much of worth, at least not competitivesly or efficiently. The price of gasoline provided by what you would likely consider to be "evil" oil companies is less than that of bottled water, and to accomplish this they conduct preliminary exploration, environmental studies often largely unneeded, drill for, tap into and produce hydrocarbons often with very complex and technologically elaborate drilling platforms offshore, transport, refine, and market throughout the country, for a few pennies profit per gallon, while government confiscates more than pennies for doing absolutely nothing to produce one drop of oil. What government has done is destroy the country by driving business offshore with unreasonably high business tax rates, some of the highest in the world. Add to that the ridiculous regulations that have driven businesses offshore, and then have people like Obama insult every working man and woman working for legitimate businesses by accusing them of greed. Cookie cutter stores?, they have actually brought costs down and provided jobs otherwise non-existent.

The ignorance you display about the economy is staggering, plainoldme. And the best you can do is bring up the name, Dick Cheney, a name the left has indoctrinated you to hate, but a name or a person you have no clue about, and who is an honorable man compared to Obama or his buddies in Fannie and Freddie. Cheney divested himself of Halliburton when he became VP. You may wish to read about Franklin Raines that siphoned off tens of millions for running Fannie or Freddie into the ground, and has never been called to account, but because he is a friend of Obama nothing will ever happen. It is corruption that will not be fixed as long as Democrats are in charge, just one of countless examples.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 04:10 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

plainoldme wrote:
Chalk it up to your age, DAvid. Enough.
I 'll chalk it up to unsuccessfully attempted deception from u, PLain.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 04:37 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
You are off the deep end. Just because you forgot something doesn't mean others didn't. William F. Buckley reported in his eulogy for Goldwater upon his death of the opposition that Jews held toward the Senator: http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/1998200511170839.asp

This rather long article opens with a note that Goldwater's Jewish background was downplayed during his presidential campaign:
http://parentseyes.arizona.edu/bloom/v13goldwater.htm

I spent some time on line but I think Goldwater is too long dead to be of much interest, although I did find mention in a blog of how his campaign staff had emphasized that his ancestors were "Polish" immigrants and not Jewish. This was repeated in ways that demonstrate they were not from a common source in several other blogs.
Your own links support ME, and disprove U.
Your first link from a Jewish source, defines him as not being a Jew.

Your second link says:
Joachim Prinz, president of the American Jewish Congress,
warned that "a Jewish vote for Goldwater is a vote for Jewish suicide."
Again, this shows Jewish rejection.
Thay were not like when Abe Beame or Ed Koch were running for Mayor of New York.





David
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 04:42 pm
@okie,
You do drivel. Either you are a tool of the right, or so completely hoodwinked that you think the day begins at noon.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 04:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Has it been so long that you forgot what you were writing here?
 

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