23
   

Israeli airstrikes in Gaza kill more than 200

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 05:38 pm
By the way, for those Americans that are watching this drama play out, the good news is Israel does not need our military to assist them. I mean Israel is not Afghanistan, Iraq, South Korea, Vietnam, France, Italy, Britain. In other words, in Israel's wars, only Israelis die; no American military dies. Let us dwell on that as the good news. Perhaps, that is what really matters - an ally that does not ask us to die for THEIR battles.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 05:41 pm
Day 3 ... at least 345 Palestinians killed and more than 1550 wounded, according to Gaza medics .....:

UN chief calls for end to unacceptable violence:

Quote:
[...At the United Nations, Ban said he was "deeply alarmed by the current escalation of violence in and around Gaza. This is unacceptable.

"Both Israel and Hamas must halt their acts of violence and ... a ceasefire must be declared immediately," the UN secretary general said.

He said he had been in touch with regional leaders, but chided them saying: "I think regional and international partners have not done enough. They should do more." ..........

.......There was also growing concern about the humanitarian situation in the aid-dependent territory of 1.5 million which Israel has virtually sealed off since Hamas seized power in June 2007.

"We ask all parties involved to allow food and medical supplies to reach the people there," the White House spokesman said. ....../quote]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/un-chief-calls-for-end-to-unacceptable-violence/2008/12/30/1230399160375.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 05:44 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
In other words, in Israel's wars, only Israelis die; no American military dies.


Seems to me it's mostly other people who do the dying.... like the Lebanese, or the Palestinians.


Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 05:58 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

Foofie wrote:
In other words, in Israel's wars, only Israelis die; no American military dies.


Seems to me it's mostly other people who do the dying.... like the Lebanese, or the Palestinians.


Thank goodness no American military are needed to die, as occurred in protecting Afghanistan, Iraq, South Korea, South Vietnam, France, Italy, Britain. In other words, it is nice to have an ally that can fight its own battles.

But, let us not quibble over who is dying; as long as it is not Americans for once. If you are concerned about all of humanity, I cannot change your thinking, nor do I want to.
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 06:05 pm
@old europe,
Hard to see the Jews of today having much compassion in regards to the death of a few non Jews,when history shows, where ever they were living, even in a country where they were born,they were treated with destain, and again, even to the extent of innocent men woman and children being rounded up in their millions and being butchered, just because they were jews. I'm positive now, that if they didn't have the means of defending or availing their selves of what they think they have a right to, they would be very quickly be rounded up and butchered again--- every last one of them.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 06:07 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
Thank goodness no American military are needed to die, as occurred in protecting Afghanistan, Iraq, South Korea, South Vietnam, France, Italy, Britain. In other words, it is nice to have an ally that can fight its own battles


seems like an ass backwards way to look at it too me....how about we consider how much our interests would be further ahead if we did not have the war mongering idiot Israelis as a "friend"? It is long past time to dump this relationship, it just is not working for us.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 06:12 pm
@tenderfoot,
Quote:
Hard to see the Jews of today having much compassion in regards to the death of a few non Jews,when history shows, where ever they were living, even in a country where they were born,they were treated with destain, and again, even to the extent of innocent men woman and children being rounded up in their millions and being butchered, just because they were jews. I'm positive now, that if they didn't have the means of defending or availing their selves of what they think they have a right to, they would be very quickly be rounded up and butchered again--- every last one of them.


we are not responsible for the sins of our fathers, and we never should allow the victim card to let individuals or nations get away with sins here and now. We do humanity a disservice by supporting Israel. The Palestinians have sinned as well, so we probably should be neutral
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 06:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

They complain about not being able to import food, medical supplies, yarn, dinner ware etc, yet they are never short of missiles, rockets and mortars to fire into Israel.

Perhaps instead of smuggling in weapons, they smuggled in trade goods I would probably have a different opinion about the matter. But, until Hamas stops the stupid and useless penis waving, they deserve what they get.


The Israelian defense minister has a different opinion (according to e.g. The Jerusalem Post):
Quote:
The defense minister also reassured Kouchner and Blair that "Israel will not refrain from transferring humanitarian aid to the residents of Gaza." He reiterated that "the residents of Gaza are not the target" of the operation.



I must have missed the part where your answer had anything to do with my statement. That seems to happen a lot with your posts.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 07:00 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

By the way, for those Americans that are watching this drama play out, the good news is Israel does not need our military to assist them. I mean Israel is not Afghanistan, Iraq, South Korea, Vietnam, France, Italy, Britain. In other words, in Israel's wars, only Israelis die; no American military dies. Let us dwell on that as the good news. Perhaps, that is what really matters - an ally that does not ask us to die for THEIR battles.


This is only partly true. Israel lives with an implied (and indeed in some areas explicit) American guarantee of security. This is what enables them to cling to the anachronistic concept of a modern tribal or theocratic state in an environment and historical context that make such an outcome a completely unrealistic expectation. There can be no peace and justice for all the people of the region until a pluralistic state is created there able to accomodate all the people. This, of course, won't happen until the zealots on both sides give up their sectarian dreams.
fbaezer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 08:23 pm
@georgeob1,
Very good post George.

I'm worried about this kind of (somewhat provincial to say the least) attitude:

Foofie wrote:


But, let us not quibble over who is dying; as long as it is not Americans for once. If you are concerned about all of humanity, I cannot change your thinking, nor do I want to.

0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 08:29 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
By the way, for those Americans that are watching this drama play out, the good news is Israel does not need our military to assist them.


Only your (made-in-USA) GBU-39 missiles (capable of penetrating at least 90 cm. of steel-reinforced concrete.)

Israel received approval from Congress to purchase 1,000 and in September defense officials said on Sunday that the first shipment had arrived earlier this month.
source (IAF uses new US-supplied smart bomb -By Yaakov Katz / Jerusalem Post)



US Veto Blocks UN Anti-Israel Resolution

By Press TV

December 28, 2008 "Press TV" -- -The UN Security Council has been unable to force an end to Israeli attacks against Gaza due to the intervention of the United States.Washington once again used its veto powers on Sunday to block a resolution calling for an end to the massive ongoing Israeli attacks against the Gaza Strip.

The council has only been able to issue a 'non-binding' statement that calls on Israel to voluntarily bring all its military activities in the besieged region to an immediate end.

The US, a staunch ally to Israel, has so far vetoed over 40 anti-Israeli resolutions sought by the council since 1972.


http://staging.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/gazachildren.jpg


I don't know if the picture above bears any relation to the story i just read in the Guardian (UK) . But read this and tell me how Israel imagines this thing is going to end.

'I didn't see any of my girls, just a pile of bricks'
Israeli air strike kills five daughters from one family as Gaza death toll passes 300

* Hazem Balousha Jabalia and Rory McCarthy in Jerusalem
* The Guardian, Tuesday 30 December 2008
* Article history

The family house was small: three rooms, a tiny kitchen and bathroom, built of poor-quality concrete bricks with a corrugated asbestos roof, in block four of Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza. There are hundreds of similar homes crammed into the overcrowded streets, filled with some of the poorest and most vulnerable families in the Gaza Strip.

But it was this house, where Anwar and Samira Balousha lived with their nine children, that had the misfortune to be built next to what became late on Sunday night another target in Israel's devastating bombing campaign of Gaza.

An Israeli bomb struck the refugee camp's Imad Aqil mosque around midnight, destroying the building and collapsing several shops and a pharmacy nearby. The force of the blast was so massive it also brought down the Balousha family's house, which yesterday lay in ruins. The seven eldest girls were asleep together on mattresses in one bedroom and they bore the brunt of the explosion. Five were killed where they lay: Tahrir, 17, Ikram 15, Samer, 13, Dina, eight and Jawahar, four.

They were the latest in a growing number of civilian casualties in Israel's bombing campaign. At least 335 Palestinians have been killed and as many as 1,400 injured. On the Israeli side, four people have been killed by Palestinian rockets. Israel's military offensive continues and may yet intensify.

Imam, 16, lay in the room with her sisters but by chance survived with only injuries to her legs. She was eventually pulled free and rushed to hospital. "I was asleep. I didn't hear anything of the explosion," she said yesterday as she sat comforting her mother. "I just woke when the bricks fell on me. I saw all my sisters around me and I couldn't move. No one could see me from above. The neighbours and ambulance men couldn't see us. They were walking on the bricks above us. I started to scream and told my sisters we would die. We all screamed: 'Baba, Mama. Come to help us.'"

Her parents had been sleeping in the room next door with their two youngest children, Muhammad, one, and Bara'a, 12 days.

Their room was damaged and all were hurt, but they survived and were taken straight to hospital even before any of the older girls were found.

Imam eventually recognised her uncle's voice among the rescuers and she shouted again for help. "He found me and started to remove the bricks and the rubble from me," she said. "They started to pull me by my hands, the bricks were still lying on my legs."

Her mother, Samira, 36, had seen the pile of bricks in the girls' bedroom and was stricken with grief, convinced they were all dead. Like all the family, she was asleep when the bomb struck. "I opened my eyes and saw bricks all over my body," she said. "My face was covered with the concrete blocks."

She checked on her two youngest children and then looked in the room next door. "I didn't see any of my daughters, just a pile of bricks and parts of the roof. Everyone told me my daughters were alive, but I knew they were gone."

She sat on a sofa surrounded by other women at a neighbour's house further along the street and struggled to speak, pausing for long moments and still overcome with shock.

"I hope the Palestinian military wings retaliate and take revenge with operations inside Israel. I ask God to take revenge on them," she said.

Her husband, Anwar, 40, sat in another house where a mourning tent had been set up. He was pale and still suffering from serious injuries to his head, his shoulder and his hands. But like many other patients in Gaza he had been made to leave an overcrowded hospital to make way for the dying. Yesterday his house was a pile of rubble: collapsed walls and the occasional piece of furniture exposed to the sky. He spoke bitterly of his daughters' deaths. "We are civilians. I don't belong to any faction, I don't support Fatah or Hamas, I'm just a Palestinian. They are punishing us all, civilians and militants. What is the guilt of the civilian?" Like many men in Gaza, Anwar has no job, and like all in the camp he relies on food handouts from the UN and other charity support to survive.

"If the dead here were Israelis, you would see the whole world condemning and responding. But why is no one condemning this action? Aren't we human beings?" he said. "We are living in our land, we didn't take it from the Israelis. We are fighting for our rights. One day we will get them back."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/30/israel-and-the-palestinians-middle-east

I don't see Israel defending. I see Israel provoking.

What on earth do they hope to achieve?
Is this about regaining their sense of power following their Lebanon defeat against Hezbola (2006) - or are they baiting the big fish - Iran?

Who knows - I don't...and i don't care. What i care about is that you have 5.1 million people crammed into a space the size of The Isle of Wight and more than half of them are children. Bombs are raining down on them and the adults of the world who are meant to be protecting them have all gone nuts.






0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 08:39 pm
you know, there are trained soldiers - grown men, who would fold emotionally after 3 days of bombing.
to children, it amounts to torture
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 07:44 am
Then tell Hamas to stop sending rockets and mortars into Israel. You'd think they would love their children more then they would hate Israel...
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 09:20 am
@Zippo,
Quote:
Most of the "rockets" being fired at Israel, land harmlessly in the desert. Rarely if ever is anyone injured by these rockets and NOT ONE person has been killed in Israel by these rockets in years!


Are you really that idiotic, or are you just so full of hatred for Israel that you deny the truth?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iFEMjc00Kob_kf1uq9mobzd82G4A

Quote:
GAZA CITY (AFP) " Eleven Palestinians, including a six-month-old baby, were killed in Israeli attacks on Wednesday while Palestinian rockets killed an Israeli in a sharp escalation of violence.


http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth/hamasinpower/Issues_with_Israel/10128128.html

Quote:
Occupied Jerusalem: An Israeli man died in a Hamas rocket attack from the Gaza Strip on Sunday and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert pledged to press ahead with military action to halt the salvoes, saying "no one involved in terror" was immune.


http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7270168.stm

Quote:
900 rockets fired so far in 2008
4,500 since Israeli withdrawal from Gaza Strip in 2005
13 Israelis killed and more than 450 injured


So for you to claim that no Israelis have died is to deny the truth, but since you have a serious hatred for anything Jewish or Israeli, I'm not surprised.




0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 09:42 am
And for those of you that keep saying that Israel should talk to Hamas, I refer you to the Hamas Charter...

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

And more specifically article 13 of their charter...

Quote:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement


So, here we have Hamas admitting, in their own charter, that they will NOT talk or negotiate, and they have as their stated goal the destruction of Israel...

Quote:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

So tell me, how do you negotiate with that?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 09:45 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Then tell Hamas to stop sending rockets and mortars into Israel. You'd think they would love their children more then they would hate Israel...


Then tell Israel to stop sending their settlements into Palestine. And stop treating the Palestinians like slaves or cattle or worse.

See? This game can go round and round all day.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 10:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Israel should treat Hamas like the govt it wants to be.
They should cut off all supplies of fuel, electricity, or other supplies they send to the Gaza Strip.
They should close the borders to any Palestinian that doesnt have a Palestinian passport, one recognized by the world.
They should stop allowing any Palestinians into Israel to work.

After all, if Hamas wants to be the govt of the Gaza Strip, then its up to them as the govt to support their own citizens, maintain the infrastructure, issue passports, and provide their citizens with jobs.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 11:31 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Israel should treat Hamas like the govt it wants to be.
They should cut off all supplies of fuel, electricity, or other supplies they send to the Gaza Strip.
They should close the borders to any Palestinian that doesnt have a Palestinian passport, one recognized by the world.
They should stop allowing any Palestinians into Israel to work.

After all, if Hamas wants to be the govt of the Gaza Strip, then its up to them as the govt to support their own citizens, maintain the infrastructure, issue passports, and provide their citizens with jobs.


So basically you call for the creation of a country-sized prison to house the Palestinians.

Wow, that'll sure stop the violence. Amazing how smart you guys are.

Cycloptichorn
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 04:05 pm
Israel is doomed because it is run by psychotic idiots who are bent on a "Greater Israel" strategy. Zionist religious fanatics who somehow think that by becoming like the White Anglo Saxon Protestants (W.A.S.P.s) who nearly wiped out the Jews in Europe in World War Two, by adopting the "Let Someone else suffer now" philosophy Zionists think they will be allowed to succeed in their expansionist plans.
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 04:08 pm
@Foofie,
"Considering the Hamas government does not recognize Israel's right to exist"

Have Israel recognized Palestinians "right to exist" ?
 

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