@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
When was the determination made that Jews 'should have a homeland?' Why was that 'homeland' determined to be in the middle of their sworn enemies? Who the hell thought that would be a good idea? Why do they deserve a homeland, but other groups do not? If it turned out that your home was on a Native American former homeland - and if you live on the East Coast it probably was - would you quietly suffer your removal from that land?
The inconsistencies with the creation of Israel are unanswered to this day; it is not a product of logic but of emotion and a desire on the part of the US and Europe to avoid having to deal with Jewish refugees that they didn't want. It has become the US' proxy in the region and truly serves as our cats-paw; do not pretend that Israel exists for something as silly as providing a 'homeland' to a group of people.
Cycloptichorn
Well, thank you for your honesty. You question whether Jews should have a homeland. That is neat algebraically, since you reduced the discussion to its least common denominator, so to speak.
Jews should have a homeland, no larger than NJ (Israel), as reparations for two-thousand years of Christian persecution in Europe, and 1400 or so years of second class citizenship is Moslem lands.
WHETHER THE U.S. AND EUROPE WANTED JEWISH WWII REFUGEES, IS A RED-HERRING. THE FACT IS, MANY OF THOSE REFUGEES DID NOT WANT TO LIVE AMONGST THE WWII EUROPEANS/AMERICANS, OR THE PROGENY OF THAT WWII GENERATION. I believe, you might be making the mistake of thinking Jews are a commodity and can be shuffled here or there, and they should have no preferences, as long as no one relights the ovens?
Also, may I assume you never heard of the mid-1950's movie, Gentleman's Agreement? In its day, that movie was applauded by liberals of the time, since it depicted how in a hospital, only the Christian interns would be mentored, while a Jewish intern would either "sink or swim," based on his own abilities. It was applauded, since it showed American society's insidious anti-Semitism of the day. Anyway, even in our very nice country, that has just elected a Black President, Jews are still social pariahs in many circles, just as other ethnic groups are. However other ethnic groups have homelands to go to (except African-Americans). So, since Jews should be, in my opinion, no less of humanity than most of the other ethnic groups in America, I just think Jews should have a homeland, just in case a Jew might have had his/her fill, so to speak, of the Gentile culture in the U.S.
You, I believe, might be of a Christian heritage, regardless of current participation, and perhaps very much enjoy the Christmas season, the Easter holiday, All Saint Hallow's Eve (Halloween), and feel very comfortable with all the tatooed people in summer, or the continual portrayal of America's history as a reflection of its Christian roots. This does not bother me; however, being a secular Jew, I would like to believe that more ethnic/religious Jews would have the option to go somewhere where the culture is "Jewish."
To better understand Israel, you should, in my opinion, add to your thinking the possibility, that for some Jews, Israel is a way of snubbing a world that had no learning curve in toleration over two-thousand years.
Apparently, there are good people in this world that understand that thought, and do support Israel, simply because they understand that since the western world borrowed the Jew's concept of monotheism, and borrowed their bible, and borrowed their anti-Roman zealot rabbi (Jesus), they sort of owe these people a small plot of land.
I notice that you do not answer all points in my replies to you. That is O.K.
By the way, the ongoing accusation on these Gaza threads, that Israel is performing genocide, is false, since if Israel wanted to perform genocide, they could do a lot better job. They are fighting an enemy, and the horror of war results in innocent deaths. And, since we may not be getting even-handed reporting, I cannot believe either side. Time will likely give us all a better picture of what did occur.
Also, to answer your analogy that I would have to leave my area, if it was ceded to Native Americans, is exactly what I would have to do. If you are aware of the changing demographics of urban areas, then you would agree that in so many cities, one or another group departed, after the neighborhood reached a "tipping point" where the neighborhood was no longer the neighborhood of yesteryear. It has been called "white flight," and reflects the civil way to deal with new neighbors that one chooses to not accept. No war, no fighting; yes, just move on. That changing demographic concern was avoided in Europe, historically. The ghetto/or pale of settlement (in Czarist Russia) prevented the "nice" neighborhoods from changing.
I do not expect you to give credence to anything I have stated. You might be focussing on your own thoughts, and what you may believe is the complete correctness of them?
Lastly, why do you sign every thread with your typed forum name?
