I TOOK DOWN MY AMERICAN FLAG FROM MY HOUSE

@Setanta,

Quote:

In addition, PPD, members of the equestrian class, acting for the senatorial class, ran huge slave-driven operations which increasingly depended on government military contracts, and which drove small farmers and small craftsmen out of business, creating a huge unemployed underclass which relied upon state welfare to survive.

If you say so, set. My knowledge of history is pretty much limited to things I fancy, which would involve the four Ws (or the eight Vs, if you prefer): war, wine, water, women.

Oh, and wigs. Wigs are good.

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@dagmaraka,

Quote:

Why would you need to tell it again?
We've all heard it tens of times.

Well, we don 't have a closed community.

We have newcomers.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:

Probably like slapping the brainless bigots silly.

I don 't believe thay had any bigots yet.

I think the first bigot was a Viking who was captured by the English
and brought to the King, whose foot the Viking refused to kiss,
violating a custom, when he said something like "not me, bi Got" meaning: not me, by God.

That is just (incomplete) etymology of the word. They surely had plenty of "persons who are intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from their own, " hence bigots. They were not called that, but that didn't mean they weren't there.

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@OmSigDAVID,

yes, and they are all dying to year how you armed yourself as an 8 years old. whatever, please yourself, talk about it till your last dying breath.

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@patiodog,

They were called the latifundia, and they destroyed the economy and the working class in the western portion of the empire. In the east, most of land had been deeded to the Empire or just handed over by kings who didn't want to see their people subjected to a Roman conquest, so the huge slave operations were absent, and small holders and small craftsmen continued to thrive. The Roman empire in the East lasted for more than a thousand years after the Goths sacked Rome. Alaric and his Goths (they were all into death metal and wore exclusively black clothing, had many piercings and wore heavy eye makeup and black nail polish) sacked Rome in 408 CE. That was by no means the end of the empire in the west, and in fact the administrative capital had already been removed to Ravenna on the Adriatic coast--but it was still a huge symbolic shame for the empire. But Rome had been sacked in 390 BCE and went on to conquer a huge empire. It was the greed and stupidity of the wealthy capitalists which destroyed the economy and imperial authority in the west. In the east, Constantinople did not fall to the Osmanli Turks until May, 1453, more than a thousand years later--which is why Gibbon's book is so long.

In addition to the lead acetate, for the water projects (more than a million gallons an hour into the city of Rome alone in the heyday of the aqueducts) they used soft lead pipes, which could be wrapped around a dowel by hand, and crimped to form the pipes. If a pipe blew out from pressure, that section could be quickly and easily replaced. That meant clean water and public baths on a scale which the world was not to know again for more than 1500 years--it also meant chronic low-grade lead poisoning.

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@dagmaraka,

Quote:

That is just (incomplete) etymology of the word. They surely had plenty of "persons who are intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from their own, " hence bigots. They were not called that, but that didn't mean they weren't there.

By that reasoning,
woud u call a Jew a " bigot " if he refused to associate with
people who had nazi opinions ?

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That derivation for "bigot" is myth . . . from the Online Etymology Dictionary:

Quote:

1598, from M.Fr. bigot, from O.Fr., supposedly a derogatory name for Normans, the old theory (not universally accepted) being that it springs from their frequent use of O.E. oath bi God. Plausible, since the Eng. were known as goddamns in Joan of Arc's France, and during World War I Americans serving in France were said to be known as]les sommobiches (see also son of a bitch). But the earliest Fr. use of the word (12c.) is as the name of a people apparently in southern Gaul. The earliest Eng. sense is of "religious hypocrite," especially a female one, and may be influenced by beguine. Sense extended 1687 to other than religious opinions. (emphases added)

Another example of someone believing something because it confirms their prejudices.

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@Setanta,

Is there a reason
that we shoud accept the authority of YOUR choice as dispositive ?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

There is the good reason that i have provided a source, and you've just provided your anecdotal musing.

Source at Etymonline-dot-com

They credit Douglas Harper as the author:

Quote:

Douglas Harper is a historian, author, journalist and lecturer based in Lancaster, Pa. He is the author of "If Thee Must Fight:" A Civil War History of Chester County, Pa." (Chester County Historical Society, 1990); "An Index of Civil War Soldiers and Sailors from Chester County, Pa." (Chester County Historical Society, 1995); "The Whitman Incident: Revolutionary Revisions to an Ephrata Tale" (Lancaster County Historical Society Journal, 1995); "West Chester to 1865: That Elegant & Notorious Place" (Chester County Historical Society, 1999).

Harper is a graduate of Dickinson College, Carlisle, Pa., with a degree in history and English. He has been featured in a BBC production on the Welsh settlements in America, and has been interviewed as a source for historical articles by the Philadelphia Inquirer, Washington Post and many magazines. He was arguably the second-most-famous assistant city editor ever to work at the West Chester, Pa., "Daily Local News." The other was Dave Barry. The newspaper was affectionately known by its readers as the "Daily Lack of News."

So there is good reason to trust Mr. Harper. I'll certainly accept his scholarship over your bigoted point of view.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

In addition, PPD, members of the equestrian class, acting for the senatorial class, ran huge slave-driven operations which increasingly depended on government military contracts, and which drove small farmers and small craftsmen out of business, creating a huge unemployed underclass which relied upon state welfare to survive.

... not to mention an unresolved immigration problem.... the question of what to do with immgrants from North of the border... the contradiction between an enormous effort, in personnel as well as in money, just to enforce the Northern Border, while at the same time relying more and more on immigrants from the North just to run the whole operation...

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@Setanta,

YEAH, I forgot about the anti-musing rule.

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@old europe,

That's a good point, Boss . . . Flavius Stilicho, who defended the empire from Alaric and the Goths, was the son of a Vandal. Alaric himself was a Roman military officer, who was basically trying to enforce a grievance by the Goths for land they claimed had not been granted to them by the empire after having provided levies for military service.

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@OmSigDAVID,

That snide tone is typical of you . . . there's no anit-musing rule, as you damn well know . . . you just can't expect your silly, bigoted musings to be taken seriously, especially when someone can contradict you and provide a source. And any source that lists the author and his/her credentials is a better authority than your musing.

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in all that transpired over the last eight years i never scratched off my american flag decale from the window of my car, nor failed to stand and recite the flag allegience or sing the national anthem in public with my hand over my heart.

regardless of how i felt about the government of the united states i never lost hope in the decency of the ameican people.

i always believed in america

i know from personal experience, that those who act today as if they lost their america ought to believe in america, because that is the only way they can get it back.

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@kuvasz,

IMO...

America is the belief that we can survive this bastard, and do better next time...

FWIW

(and KMA to the right wing for 4 years)

I feel like a young texter...

Cool

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@Setanta,

Quote:

That snide tone is typical of you . . . there's no anit-musing rule, as you damn well know

O, I forgot ! There's no anit-musing rule

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I TOOK DOWN MY AMERICAN FLAG FROM IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE

America does not exist anymore.

I don't know if you are serious or being flippant, but after some reflection, I would not take it down. Remember, we still have some checks and balances, hopefully enough to keep Obama boxed in so that he cannot do everything he might do otherwise if unrestrained. I noticed in his speech that he said to his admirers that we "might not get there" in 2 years or even in one term. Where "there" is - is open to conjecture of course, nobody knows, maybe he does and hasn't told us yet, or maybe some of his staunchest admirers and friends know what "there" is code for?

I will remain optimistic that there are enough people that will wake up to reality. Now that all the sobbing with joy is past the first day, some people may begin to ask, what is he actually going to do, something we haven't heard yet during the campaign. Reality, you know, is a pretty severe shock to idealistic talk. Solving the energy crisis in 10 years does not lend itself to grand idealistic proclamations of geothermal being the answer, or solar, or wind. And just maybe the man has enough decency to come around and smell the coffee.

And remember, David, there were almost half of the people that voted for Mr. McCain, so you have lots of friends out here that will still be around. All we need are another 10% of the people to watch what may happen over the next 2 years, and if he bombs out completely, hopefully we all survive, and things can turn around pretty fast. Hopefully, there are still enough senators in Congress to block the worst and most outlandish stuff that could potentially come down the pike.

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@okie,

okie i give you a thumbs up for your patience and belief in america

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@okie,

Quote:

Remember, we still have some checks and balances,
hopefully enough to keep Obama boxed in so that he cannot do
everything he might do otherwise if unrestrained.

He is unrestrained. He controls both houses of Congress.
There are no checks and no balances.

When the federal system was conceived, the states were supposed to
restrain the federal government, but the states exhausted this power
during the Civil War. State sovereignty did not fare well.
By the act of defeating the Southern States and coercing membership
in the Union, the Northern States sacrificed their own sovereignty
to the creature that thay were serving.

Quote:

Hopefully, there are still enough senators in Congress to block the
worst and most outlandish stuff that could potentially come down the pike.

No; see above.
Additionally, he has charisma working for him.
That served Mussolini and Hitler very well indeed; it works.

Resistance is futile.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

"Resistance is futile. "

just so's we both agree....

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I TOOK DOWN MY AMERICAN FLAG FROM MY HOUSE

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