19
   

Should we all hide our wallets? What do you think?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:21 am
Redistribution of wealth isn't just a concept any more. Looks like it will likely be a done deal if Barack Obama is President:



Translation: If you earned it, it very well may not be yours to keep.
 
Woiyo9
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:28 am
Conservative bloggers and websites have been flogging it, and now John McCain's campaign has put its imprimatur on it: a newly disclosed radio interview in which Democratic rival Barack Obama talks about the redistribution of wealth.

The interview, first reported by the Drudge Report, was with a Chicago radio station while he was an Illinois state senator on Sept. 6, 2001.

Obama is talking about the victories of the civil rights movement, and says, "You know if you look at the victories and the failures of the Civil Rights movement and its litigation strategy in the Court, I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples so that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order as long as I could pay for it I would be okay. But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society.... And one of the I think the tragedies of the Civil Rights movement was because the Civil Rights movement became so court focused I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change and in some ways we still suffer from that."

The entire context of the interview isn't clear, and the sentiment isn't all that different from Martin Luther King Jr., who after the voting rights and other accomplishments of the 1960s civil rights movement moved toward greater emphasis on poverty and economic justice.

But McCain's campaign is jumping on it as part of the assault on Obama's remark to the famous Joe the plumber in Ohio that with America so economically troubled, it might be good to spread the wealth.

"The American people continue to learn more about Barack Obama. Now we know that the slogans 'change you can believe in' and 'change we need' are code words for Barack Obama's ultimate goal: 'redistributive change.' In a previously uncovered interview from September 6, 2001, Barack Obama expressed his regret that the Supreme Court hadn't been more 'radical' and described as a 'tragedy' the Court's refusal to take up 'the issues of redistribution of wealth.' No wonder he wants to appoint judges that legislate from the bench " as insurance in case a unified Democratic government under his control fails to meet his basic goal: taking money away from people who work for it and giving it to people who Barack Obama believes deserve it. Europeans call it socialism, Americans call it welfare, and Barack Obama calls it change," McCain senior policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said in a statement.

UPDATE: The Obama campaign is responding by sending around a report from Politico in which Cass Sunstein, a Harvard law professor who is advising Obama, downplays the remarks as law professor-speak.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/10/mccain_slams_ob_3.html
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:36 am
How many threads are you Republicans going to post about this?

Obama's going to win and your taxes are going to go up, if you make more than 250k or so. Get used to it and quit bitching about it.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:38 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
Redistribution of wealth isn't just a concept any more.

Was it ever just a concept?

Wealth redistribution happens all the time.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:39 am
I'm hearing a lot of cuts in this interview. Does anyone have an uncut version?
Foxfyre
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:40 am
@Woiyo9,
In truth, that the YouTube clip was obviously edited bugged me, because I always wonder what extenuating phrases might have been intentionally omitted. But based on other stuff, I'm not finding much extenuating circumstances to suggest that redistribution of wealth is not high on Obama's agenda for whatever reason.

But he sure does object if you attach that to the well-known phrase: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

And it seems most of the younger set is in full agreement with that.

If we pay any taxes at all, our taxes are going to go up if Obama is elected purely by virtue of him letting the Bush tax rate reductions to expire. The younger set seems to be in full agreement with that too.

But I fear for of us if he serously attempts to confiscate a lot more wealth from the wealthy that are providing all our jobs. That has proved disastrous every time it has been tried.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:42 am
@Foxfyre,
I'll add that a law professor discussing theories of how something might be accomplished in the courts is hardly a smoking gun that he's some kind of Communist.

Take a breath, already.
Foxfyre
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:44 am
@DrewDad,
I'm unaware of any 'communist' involved in this discussion. I have long commented on elements of Marxism that have been intertwined in Obama's rhetoric, and those concepts are certainly fair game for debate and consideration. Everything that Marx proposed was not bad or came from bad intentions. But many Marxist principles have proved to produce different results than promised even if we dismiss all those who have used his concepts for evil.

I do not think Karl Marx himself was an evil man.
Woiyo9
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:45 am
@Foxfyre,
The "younger set" does not have the life experiences to understand how dangerous Obama's ideas really are to our economic and political system as well as our culture of freedom.

While I do favor a progressive tax system, the disproportionate share that Obama could install with this Congress has me worried.
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:46 am
@DrewDad,
You are what you believe in.

0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 10:47 am
@Thomas,
There appears to be a copy of the full interview on WEBZ's website:

http://www.wbez.org/audio_library/od_rasep01.asp#010906

But the download is extremely slow. I'm guessing their file server is overloaded.
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:32 am
@Woiyo9,
woiyo" wrote:
While I do favor a progressive tax system, the disproportionate share that Obama could install with this Congress has me worried.


3 things...
So, favoring a progressive tax system, you support his platform, just not his numbers?

Is it fair, because you favor a progressive tax system, that you are then a socialist or a Marxist?

How is it that you find Obama's plan disproportionate?

Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:34 am
@candidone1,
candidone1 wrote:

woiyo" wrote:
While I do favor a progressive tax system, the disproportionate share that Obama could install with this Congress has me worried.


3 things...
So, favoring a progressive tax system, you support his platform, just not his numbers?

Is it fair, because you favor a progressive tax system, that you are then a socialist or a Marxist?

How is it that you find Obama's plan disproportionate?




It raises the top bracket from 35% to 39%.

OMG SOCIALISM

That 4% is the evil socialist 4% that Conservatives know to avoid.

Rolling Eyes

Cycloptichorn
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:40 am
@candidone1,
Both candidates support a progressive tax system.

My issue with both candidates is the difference between the top and bottom brackets are too wide.

Obamas plan would widen the gap further.

Anyone who thinks a progressive tax system is "socialist or marxist" is stupid. Yet, Obama should watch what he says about "re-distributing" the wealth as the phrase will make people like you ask this type of question
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:42 am
@Cycloptichorn,
That is what he says. With this Congress, I can not trust what he says since he has already changed his plan at least twice during this campaign.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:45 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

That is what he says. With this Congress, I can not trust what he says since he has already changed his plan at least twice during this campaign.


And we know that all plans change over time, and that all legislation has modifications made to it before it becomes law. So what? To insist on static and unmoving plans is foolish.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:49 am
@Thomas,
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_campaign_falsely_claims.php
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:52 am
@Woiyo9,
It only came from "people like me" after the barrage of right wing news outlets continually peddled this tripe 24/7.
I am separated and only make 70k a year but I favor redistribution of the wealth, even if I have very little of it.

I really believe "country first" includes all the people and all the things in the country...rich or poor people, the environmnet, the military, education etc. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help out a single woman who decided to leave her husband is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help out an individual with a mental disorder is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help out an ex drug addict get the wheels on his life turning is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help make my roads better, safer or my neighborhood cleaner are a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help improve on the environment is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help a school hire another teacher is a good thing.

I fail to see why, with my modest income, I welcome taxation, while there are so many others with so much more who object to it.

Reason? Greed. Selfishness. Cynicism. Stupidity.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 11:56 am
@candidone1,
candidone1 wrote:

It only came from "people like me" after the barrage of right wing news outlets continually peddled this tripe 24/7.
I am separated and only make 70k a year but I favor redistribution of the wealth, even if I have very little of it.

I really believe "country first" includes all the people and all the things in the country...rich or poor people, the environmnet, the military, education etc. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help out a single woman who decided to leave her husband is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help out an individual with a mental disorder is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help out an ex drug addict get the wheels on his life turning is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help make my roads better, safer or my neighborhood cleaner are a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help improve on the environment is a good thing. To think that some of my taxes on 70k might help a school hire another teacher is a good thing.

I fail to see why, with my modest income, I welcome taxation, while there are so many others with so much more who object to it.

Reason? Greed. Selfishness. Cynicism. Stupidity.


Agreed. It wouldn't kill me to be taxed at a higher rate than I currently am, and I make less than you.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2008 12:00 pm
@candidone1,
You said it well.

 

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