19
   

Should we all hide our wallets? What do you think?

 
 
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 02:38 pm
I think everyone should be really scared... especially after reading that story. I mean, damn! The guy spent 25 years building 4 businesses, and can't even figure out who was in charge of the government during a large majority of that time. IF he's real, and I don't doubt that he is or think it matters one way or the other, he's obviously swallowed a lot of talking points 'cause as far as I know Obama hasn't indicated anywhere whatsoever that he's planning to take Bob the Builders money and just start passing it out to people sitting on their asses.

C'mon, if Bob the Builder now has 4 businesses and pays 3% more in taxes on his PERSONAL INCOME to help rebuild the nations infrastructure, make the country more energy independent, provide better education for those he needs to hire, etc... Do you think he won't end up benefiting a hell of a lot more than 3%?

Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 02:47 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Well said, DTOM!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 02:48 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Let's see:

25 years ago, in 1983, the top marginal tax rate was 50% on any taxable income over $109,400.

I guess 39% on anything over $250,000 is just too much of a burden, though....


25 years ago Cory Miller was in hock up to his eyeballs trying to get a business off the ground. That was then. This is now.

There were too many definitions/types of corporation in the early 1980's to state what the taxes were without a fairly extensive detailed table. Currently USA businesses are paying the highest marginal tax rate in the world and Obama wants to raise that. Please educate yourself on the implications of that here:

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/MarginalTaxRates.html
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 02:56 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Phoenix32890 wrote:

Quote:
1) why in the world would you vote for someone that has a social agenda that you violently disagree with? to so is to capitulate... without a struggle, violent or not.


Priorities, my dear, priorities. I am a feminist who believes in a woman's right to choose. Saying that, I think that the security of the country trumps everything else. I don't think that Obama is the person who has the ability (or the inclination) to keep the country secure.


and why not, if i may ask?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 02:58 pm
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

I think everyone should be really scared... especially after reading that story. I mean, damn! The guy spent 25 years building 4 businesses, and can't even figure out who was in charge of the government during a large majority of that time. IF he's real, and I don't doubt that he is or think it matters one way or the other, he's obviously swallowed a lot of talking points 'cause as far as I know Obama hasn't indicated anywhere whatsoever that he's planning to take Bob the Builders money and just start passing it out to people sitting on their asses.

C'mon, if Bob the Builder now has 4 businesses and pays 3% more in taxes on his PERSONAL INCOME to help rebuild the nations infrastructure, make the country more energy independent, provide better education for those he needs to hire, etc... Do you think he won't end up benefiting a hell of a lot more than 3%?




Assuming that we accept what Obama has promised at face value, have you seriously thought about how that extra 3% in taxes assessed to 10% of Americans is going to provide that tax cut for the 90% of the rest of us AND achieve energy independence AND rebuild the infrastructure AND provide health care for everybody AND save social security AND make us proud in education AND send every kid to college AND spread the wealth around AND keep the government running?

Can you understand why some of us aren't buying that?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:02 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

You and I were raised to know that any opinion or held belief that cannot stand up to honest scrutiny is not worth having.


then quit griping about joe the plumber being examined. Wink
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:15 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

You and I were raised to know that any opinion or held belief that cannot stand up to honest scrutiny is not worth having.


then quit griping about joe the plumber being examined. Wink


It wasn't Joe the Plumber's opinion or belief that was being examined. What was happening was a dedicated attempt to destroy Joe the Plumber presumably to shut up him and anybody else agreeing with his opinion. I have no problem with any of you expressing your opinion of how Joe's opinion was wrong. But (the rhetorical) you don't do that. You attack him, and therein is the difference. Its just like attacking Cory the Driller as a probable fraud rather than considering the things that he was saying.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:18 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Dtom wrote
Quote:
before you say something like this, you should consider the treatment people who don't like bush & crowd have received over the last 8 years.


But you did immediately dismiss the email as unsubstantiated...

and your initial posting of it was unsubstantiated. and you still have provided no unrefutable proof that he really did write it.

i admit that it's a semantic. but still, i truly have no way of knowing that it's not bogus.


...or the opinion of us who think there are a lot of religious fanatics among Obama supporters based purely on the words and behavior of those supporters?

you've got to be kidding me, foxy. of the 4 people in the election, which one was it that had a minister putting his hands on and going off about protection from witchcraft?

but let me again make it clear, okay? the only people i hear talking about obama being a messiah or any of that stuff are his opponents and their followers. that doesn't mean that none of obama's supporters supporters are saying it, but noone i personally know says anything like it. in fact, most of us were hoping for hillary. but, obama won the nomination. and in the time since, he has convinced me that he will do a good job.

obama is a politician. nothing more nothing less. but he's the politician that i think will bring the country onto a better course than mccain. and i'm certain a better course than sarah palin.

Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:22 pm
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

I think everyone should be really scared... especially after reading that story. I mean, damn! The guy spent 25 years building 4 businesses, and can't even figure out who was in charge of the government during a large majority of that time. IF he's real, and I don't doubt that he is or think it matters one way or the other, he's obviously swallowed a lot of talking points 'cause as far as I know Obama hasn't indicated anywhere whatsoever that he's planning to take Bob the Builders money and just start passing it out to people sitting on their asses.

C'mon, if Bob the Builder now has 4 businesses and pays 3% more in taxes on his PERSONAL INCOME to help rebuild the nations infrastructure, make the country more energy independent, provide better education for those he needs to hire, etc... Do you think he won't end up benefiting a hell of a lot more than 3%?




Great post! 1000 thumbs up!
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:24 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

And here's another source authenticating the letter as real - hear it from Cory himself:


okay. that's all i wanted from you.

now do you understand where i was coming from? why i haven't posted the email about mccain?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

You and I were raised to know that any opinion or held belief that cannot stand up to honest scrutiny is not worth having.


then quit griping about joe the plumber being examined. Wink


It wasn't Joe the Plumber's opinion or belief that was being examined. What was happening was a dedicated attempt to destroy Joe the Plumber presumably to shut up him and anybody else agreeing with his opinion. I have no problem with any of you expressing your opinion of how Joe's opinion was wrong. But (the rhetorical) you don't do that. You attack him, and therein is the difference. Its just like attacking Cory the Driller as a probable fraud rather than considering the things that he was saying.


but in the end, joe's situation and his story have proven to be other than he made out.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:33 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DTOM, I HAVE provided unrefutable proof that he did write it.

The 'religious fanaticism' of which I speak has to do with the unquestioning loyalty all you Obama supporters express for him, how whatever he says is the way it is and is not to be questioned. Anybody who objects is to be squashed and discredited immediately. The way Obama supporters treat anybody who even questions his policies or ideas is less extreme but otherwise not that different from the days when religious heretics were required to recant or be burned at the stake or otherwise put to death.

What a person personally believes can be important, and I respect your and Phoenix's disagreement with and/or contempt for Sarah Palin's professed beliefs. I disagree that she has an unacceptable social agenda, however. I have detected nothing that suggests that she would try to impose her personal beliefs on the rest of us against our will. I appreciate that she does not attempt to hide her personal opinions at all and there seems to be little contradiction or duplicity in her. Even as much as I disagree with him on several issues important to me, McCain is much the same. Neither are saints or incapable of screwing up, but both are open books. I wish we could say the same of Obama.



0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:33 pm
@squinney,
Squinney wrote:
C'mon, if Bob the Builder now has 4 businesses and pays 3% more in taxes on his PERSONAL INCOME to help rebuild the nations infrastructure, make the country more energy independent, provide better education for those he needs to hire, etc... Do you think he won't end up benefiting a hell of a lot more than 3%?

Not 3% more in taxes on his personal income, 3% more in taxes on the part of his personal income he earns above $250,000. So he gets an even better deal than you say he does.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:35 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DTOM wrote
Quote:
but in the end, joe's situation and his story have proven to be other than he made out.


No it didn't. In his initial encounter with Obama, all he said was he was thinking about buying a small business that would make X number of dollars and, if he did, Obama would raise his taxes. How could anybody who was the least bit objective or honest have a problem with that question? How do you justify any citizen being dragged through the mud for asking a question like that?
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:43 pm
@Foxfyre,
My grandfather, who grew a small farm in Nebraska to the point of being able to retire from the proceeds, and lived his entire life as a wage-earning adult with a higher top marginal tax rate than Obama plans to implement, laughs at whiny, selfish, little Cory the well-digger.

0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:43 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Squinney wrote:
C'mon, if Bob the Builder now has 4 businesses and pays 3% more in taxes on his PERSONAL INCOME to help rebuild the nations infrastructure, make the country more energy independent, provide better education for those he needs to hire, etc... Do you think he won't end up benefiting a hell of a lot more than 3%?

Not 3% more in taxes on his personal income, 3% more in taxes on the part of his personal income he earns above $250,000. So he gets an even better deal than you say he does.


I can't see how it is a good deal to have my taxes raised if I'm a Joe the Plumber or a Cory the Driller or anybody who is trying to make a buck, create jobs for others, and make the economy thrive. Especially if we are in a recession. But even if we accept that he is getting a 'better deal' with that 3%, that makes all the stuff Obama promises to do for all of us even more implausible, doesn't it?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:52 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
I can't see how it is a good deal to have my taxes raised if I'm a Joe the Plumber or a Cory the Driller or anybody who is trying to make a buck, create jobs for others, and make the economy thrive.

It's not the taxation itself that does that; It's how the taxes are spent. If they are spent on public infrastructure that you would otherwise have to acquire privately, or on projects that make your customers able to afford your products, the taxing and spending may well be a net benefit for your business. It doesn't have to be, but it can.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:02 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

DTOM wrote
Quote:
but in the end, joe's situation and his story have proven to be other than he made out.


No it didn't. In his initial encounter with Obama, all he said was he was thinking about buying a small business that would make X number of dollars and, if he did, Obama would raise his taxes. How could anybody who was the least bit objective or honest have a problem with that question? How do you justify any citizen being dragged through the mud for asking a question like that?


are you seriously saying that a business consisting of one owner, unlicensed and one helper, unlicensed will see in excess of $250 below the line... oh never mind...

as far as being dragged through the mud? i had never heard of joe the plumber until mccain mentioned him repeatedly at the debate. until mccain started parading him at rallies.

if the guy didn't want to face the same scrutiny as everyone else in public life, he could have just said no to mccain. instead, he hired a publicist.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:10 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
I can't see how it is a good deal to have my taxes raised if I'm a Joe the Plumber or a Cory the Driller or anybody who is trying to make a buck, create jobs for others, and make the economy thrive.

It's not the taxation itself that does that; It's how the taxes are spent. If they are spent on public infrastructure that you would otherwise have to acquire privately, or on projects that make your customers able to afford your products, the taxing and spending may well be a net benefit for your business. It doesn't have to be, but it can.


but don't ya know thomas, obama plans to take all of that money, run down to the projects and hand out benjis to alla those single welfare moms... Rolling Eyes

whatever. the same people that are grousing about this would be the same ones bitching if they kept the tax cuts, but had to pay tolls on the freeway or pay the fireman in cash if they had a fire.

strangely, my very conservative, very republican, very patriotic and combat vet of 2 wars father called people like this, the "hooray for me and the hell with you" crowd.
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:13 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Okay, then at almost every speech Obama or Biden or any of their surrogates hold up some real life person as an example of who they are referencing in their spiel for that day. It's okay for the Republican to have those people investigated, slimed, dragged through the mud, and publicly embarrassed?

Just so I know where you're coming from here.
 

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