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The Final Debate! No More! This Is IT! Last one!!

 
 
sozobe
 
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 08:16 am
Can you buh-lieve it?

I think I'm going to have to stay up and watch it no matter what. Can bring the kid to school late tomorrow if need be.

Will McCain be combative? Has Obama successfully goaded him into bringing up Ayers to his face? Will McCain be bailed out by the moderator bringing it up instead?

How will the format work? (Sitting at a table together -- Obama does better standing or walking as in the Town Hall debate IMO.)

Other thoughts?

(No more debates!)
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Type: Discussion • Score: 32 • Views: 10,027 • Replies: 200

 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 08:21 am
@sozobe,
I think McCain is going to do something crazy.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 08:22 am
@sozobe,
Now that the election is basically over, I am not that excited about this debate.

The last two debates were quite boring.Absent a complete McCain meltdown, I don't see why this one will be any different.

Obama will, of course, be Obama, calm, cool and in command. He has no need to make, or even let, anything dramatic happen.

If there is a meltdown, I will watch the highlights tomorrow morning. I am kind of hoping this doesn't happen so that McCain can keep the little bit of honor he still has.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 08:43 am
@ebrown p,
I know what you mean ebrown, but this is basically the last big campaign event -- one of the last chances for McCain to proactively try to swing things in his favor.

For that reason I tend to wonder the same thing as FreeDuck. Just putting in a workmanlike debate performance isn't going to swing anything for McCain. Is he gonna do something crazy?

He certainly has dug into his crazy-bag before when looking to try to gain some momentum. (Palin, "suspending" his campaign to parachute into DC, etc.)

He seems to have promised to bring up Ayers tonight, and generally seems to be walking into the trap Obama and Biden laid with the "say it to my face" stuff.

Meanwhile, the moderator will maybe actually do some follow-up this time:

Quote:
Schieffer wasn’t available to talk to Politico, but he has sent signals that he’s heard the grousing and intends to hold Barack Obama and John McCain accountable. If the candidates don’t answer questions, he recently told the Hollywood Reporter, “I'm going to call them on it.”
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 08:50 am
Yep, that's what I'm thinking. He's a gambler and this is his last shot. He's all in.

I think he's going to have to do better than just bringing up Ayers, though. Hillary already did that in a debate and Obama handled it. Other than bitch-slapping him, I'm not sure what he could do.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 08:56 am
@FreeDuck,
Yep.

The only thing that gives me pause is how we went ahead and said reasonable things to that "Obama is an Arab" woman, etc. I think he is on some level trying to retain some dignity, trying to get back some of the respect from the media/ pundit class, which I think he really misses. I do think there was also some pure electioneering there though -- independents don't tend to like bloodthirsty mobs, for example.

I think he's going to try for "tough" but I'm not sure how that will manifest itself.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 09:53 am
Dollars to donuts, this is what he/they are going to do tonight.

Over the last week or so, we've seen a highly coordinated project to bring the Ayrs/Wright memes under the umbrella of "ACORN VOTER FRAUD!!" Here's Limbaugh from yesterday...
Quote:
Limbaugh: We know that technological advancement is going along at light speed. And yet during this period of time, whether it be the last 57 years or be it the last 20 years, it seems that a majority of the black population has remained angry, frustrated, and behind. They've been left behind. They are acting like they've been left behind, and of course we've heard that this is because of racism, natural systemic institutional racism in America, that we are unfair, that this country is just horrible and rotten.
...The federal government became the father. The father didn't have to hang around in order for the kids to be okay, depending on how you define okay. But as you study more and more of this ACORN stuff, you find that it has been part of an entire movement that has been going on for two, maybe three decades, right under our noses.
We thought that it was just liberal welfare policies and all that that kept blacks from progressing while other minorities grew and prospered, but no, it is these wackos from Bill Ayers to Jeremiah Wright to other anti-American Afrocentric black liberation theologists with ACORN, and Barack Obama is smack dab in the middle of it, they have been training young black kids to hate, hate, hate this country, and they trained their parents before that to hate, hate, hate this country. It was a movement. It was a Bill Ayers, anti-capitalist, anti-American educational movement. ACORN is how it was implemented, right under our noses.
It has been a movement, it has been a religion, and Obama and Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers were all up to their big ears in it.

All of this is being echoed from the RNC, the McCain campaign, Drudge, Fox, rightwing radio, rightwing news sites, online proMcCain operations, and surrogates on TV.

The goals of this operation are pretty well fleshed out by Josh Marshall, digby and others but as regards tonight, it will provide a cover for McCain to make allusions and direct references to Ayers and Wright without appearing to look as if he is making more personal attacks.



0 Replies
 
nooks
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 09:54 am
@sozobe,
The last debate is 1.5 hours that the government owes me. I'm not expecting anything new by tomorrow.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 11:34 am
@sozobe,
Sozobe wrote:
(No more debates!)

Yep -- time for you to finally decide which candidate you prefer.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 12:37 pm
I am betting that McCain chooses the boring route in an attempt to salvage some dignity from this campaign. There will be "new" (i.e. repackaged) economic ideas, and half-hearted attacks... but McCain will pull his punches on Ayers and the terrorist stuff.

I bet this will be another boring debate.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 12:39 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

I am betting that McCain chooses the boring route in an attempt to salvage some dignity from this campaign. There will be "new" (i.e. repackaged) economic ideas, and half-hearted attacks... but McCain will pull his punches on Ayers and the terrorist stuff.

I bet this will be another boring debate.




I agree. The dow is off 500 points right now; it's going to be difficult for McCain to sustain character attacks, in a debate about the economy, on a day when the economic indicators don't look good.

Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 02:42 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I have no doubt that it would be a bad idea -- I'm just not sure if that will prevent him from doing it. He's shown a willingness to act on plenty of other bad ideas.

He really seems to be telegraphing that he will go on the attack, and I think he hates looking weak more than anything else. (And he'd look weak if he says he'll do it and then doesn't.) So I think attacking will happen, but I'm not sure if it will be the regretful, statesmanlike attack ("It's a pity it's come to this") or crazy-person attacking (getting into Obama's personal space, interrupting, bringing up REALLY out-there stuff, etc.)
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 02:47 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

I have no doubt that it would be a bad idea -- I'm just not sure if that will prevent him from doing it. He's shown a willingness to act on plenty of other bad ideas.

He really seems to be telegraphing that he will go on the attack, and I think he hates looking weak more than anything else. (And he'd look weak if he says he'll do it and then doesn't.) So I think attacking will happen, but I'm not sure if it will be the regretful, statesmanlike attack ("It's a pity it's come to this") or crazy-person attacking (getting into Obama's personal space, interrupting, bringing up REALLY out-there stuff, etc.)


haha, maybe he will do the stupid stuff - but it will be ineffective and if anything probably backfire on him. Dow ended up -762 or so, it has basically erased all the gains from Monday.

What time is the debate, 6?

Cheers
Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 02:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
9 EST, so that's probably 6 your time, yeah.

So lucky. I wish it was on at 6 here...
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 02:58 pm
I'd love to see something unexpected, but know I won't.

It will be hard for McCain not to address the Ayers thing when he promised a voter he would. It will be harder for him to do so without sounding like he's getting into the hate baiting of the past two weeks.

From hence forth I suggest that the third debate be a real mud wrestling match complete with referee's and girls in bikini's carrying score cards.

May the best man win!
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 03:04 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Sozobe wrote:
(No more debates!)

Yep -- time for you to finally decide which candidate you prefer.



It's gonna be agony for her...I can tell.


She may require supportive psychotherapy.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 03:07 pm
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

I'd love to see something unexpected, but know I won't.

It will be hard for McCain not to address the Ayers thing when he promised a voter he would. It will be harder for him to do so without sounding like he's getting into the hate baiting of the past two weeks.

From hence forth I suggest that the third debate be a real mud wrestling match complete with referee's and girls in bikini's carrying score cards.

May the best man win!



haha.

I hope, if McCain does bring up Ayers, Obama says:

Quote:
Okay, John. I'd like you to look me right in the eyes, here on national TV, and tell me and everyone that this is what you think is the most important issue to be talking about right now.

I know that the guys you have hired to run your campaign have told you that these things have to be said, or you will lose. But I know you, John. You're not this kind of person. You don't really want to be a slime merchant.

But, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong about who you are. So, if I am, look me in the eyes and tell me that you think talking about Ayers is important, on this day of all days, with our economy in the toilet. And I'll answer you, in depth. I just want everyone to be clear as to who you really are, before I do.


It would box him in nicely.

Cycloptichorn
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 04:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Thank god i have cable. I will surely be able to find something to watch. I made up my mind 40 days ago.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 04:40 pm
I did my laundry folding during the last debate; this involved some room running. I'm much better at staying sane while reading than when listening to and watching presidents and candidates for the office.
Most of the folding got done during mc cain segments.

But - I need to thank Butrflynet again for the hint about watching the debate streaming on msn.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 04:41 pm
I believe McCain will do something to shoot himself in the foot again. The fat lady should be making her singing debut right around 10:30 PM EST.
0 Replies
 
 

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