18
   

Why I Support John McCain

 
 
slkshock7
 
  4  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 11:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Don't know about you, but I work with academics all day long and I can say unequivocably, that the smartest folks usually make the poorest leaders.

And don't put words in my mouth...I never said that the president shouldn't be smart....I said that intelligence was not the most important characteristic and will stand by that remark.

You're comments about the "idiots of America" is also why the Democrats have repeatedly lost presidential elections over the past almost four decades. Dems consistently think that they are of such superior and enlightened reasoning that the opposing view is idiotic, when in truth, it's simply contrary. Fact of the matter is that there are equally intelligent folks on both sides of the aisle. Until Dems are able to see past this log in their eye, they will continue to lose elections and then whip themselves into a frenzy about the stupidity of the american voter.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 11:23 am
@slkshock7,
slkshock, The so-called "academics" are the ones who got us into this debacle. Don't give too much credit to those who thinks they know best of anything.

Otherwise, you are correct that "smarts" is not the only essential component of a good president, but it's pretty high on the "must" list.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 11:24 am
@slkshock7,
Quote:
Don't know about you, but I work with academics all day long and I can say unequivocably, that the smartest folks usually make the poorest leaders.


Yup, I was right about you on the first try. Most idiots don't realize how smart effective leaders are.

Cycloptichorn
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 11:47 am
@slkshock7,
slkshock7 wrote:

Don't know about you, but I work with academics all day long and I can say unequivocably, that the smartest folks usually make the poorest leaders.


I know what you're saying here, and I know quite a lot of people like that. However, I think it is fairly safe to say that stupid or ignorant people don't make very good leaders either. Good leaders are usually bright -- bright enough to know how to make things happen. Maybe not geniuses in the smack-atoms-together sense, but plenty smart in their own right.
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 12:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
thanks, CI, I agree.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 12:08 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck,
You're absolutely right...and the bottom line is that very few, if any, stupid or ignorant people become political leaders. Public exposure weeds those folks out before they get past their first one or two campaigns. By the time a person makes Governor, Representative, Senator, or President, you can rest assured that the person is not an idiot.

I know a lot of Bush-haters, like Cyclo, will argue that statement, but that points more to their stupidity than the politicians.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 12:17 pm
@slkshock7,
Well, I might not believe that Bush is completely stupid, but I can't be the only one who believes that maybe he missed his calling. He's not a good leader and he doesn't have a very good grasp of complex issues. We can argue how he managed to get elected to governor and then president, twice, but it's hard to make the argument that he's actually leading at all. Cheney leads him, and the rest of us follow.

Now, I believe that McCain is plenty bright, but I support Obama because I think he is bright, interested, has good judgment, and can get people to follow him. I think he is someone who can listen to advice from experts, understand the complexities, and make a good judgment. That's what I think we need right now. I certainly understand not everyone sees him that way, and that's fine. I think McCain does an excellent job in the Senate and he has a lot of power there. And I'd prefer it if he stayed there.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 12:17 pm
@slkshock7,
Quote:
I can't help but be amused that you so quickly resort to accusations of racism, despite not knowing me from Adam or even if I'm white, black, asian or middle-eastern. Simply shows the shallowness of your reasoning.


It really doesn't matter what your skin color is, Slkshock. You could be a mix of them all. The fact remains that you are very quick to worry about your own little enclave but the fact is that thousands upon thousands of innocents have died and a country destroyed and you babble on with bullshit stories about bad intelligence.
slkshock7
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 12:40 pm
@JTT,
JTT,
And what have you done to help those innocents besides babble on this forum?
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 01:13 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck,
I like your comment that Bush may have "missed his calling"...you may very well be right.

However, I do think you're giving Cheney a bit more credit than he's due by implying he's some kind of "shadow" President. There's no doubt that he has significant influence, but there's simply not a whole lot of substance to show more than that...other than the feverish imaginations of Kucinich and other rabid Bush-haters.

Frankly, I think these Cheney accusations are about as truthful as the rabid right-wing Clinton haters who accused Clinton of everything from fraud to rape and murder.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 02:50 pm
@slkshock7,
Cheney's influence has been waning when Bush's performance rating started to fall, but here's a report by USA Today that looked into Cheney's influence at the beginning of the Bush administration..

Quote:
'Frontline' takes hard look at Cheney's influence on power
Updated 10/16/2007 2:49 PM The vice president ran a secret campaign to give Bush unlimited war power, Frontline says.

By Charles Dharapak, AP
Hidden hand?: The vice president ran a secret campaign to give Bush unlimited war power, Frontline says.

By Peter Johnson, USA TODAY
For the past six years, Michael Kirk has produced 10 Frontlines for PBS on behind-the-scenes moves in the Bush White House.

In each case, Kirk says, a common thread has emerged: When it comes to "what goes on behind closed doors, it always leads to the vice president."

Tonight at 9 ET/PT (check local listings), Frontline's season premiere describes a secret campaign by Dick Cheney to give President Bush unlimited wartime power. It reports that Cheney's fixation with executive privilege began more than 30 years ago when he felt Congress was overstepping its authority and trying to assert its power over the presidency.

Tonight's edition is the story of the man behind what some people view as the most ambitious project to reshape the power of the president in history, Kirk says.

Frontline reports that Cheney and David Addington, his former legal counsel and current chief of staff, have orchestrated a number of controversial legal decisions that granted Bush the power to detain, interrogate, torture, wiretap and spy without congressional approval or judicial review.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: George W Bush | Congress | Justice Department | Dick Cheney | Rwanda | Bush White House | Project for Excellence | Journalism | Whitewater | Tom Rosenstiel | Jeff Fager | David Addington | David Fanning | Jack Goldsmith | Michael Kirk

Cheney would not talk to Frontline, and his office declined to comment on the program Monday.

Most of the details in tonight's edition have been reported in detail by other news outlets, says Frontline chief David Fanning. "We've pulled together threads" into a more comprehensive report. "This is an exercise in civics, an example of how individuals in government have affected profound decisions in the nation's history."

In one of his most extensive interviews since leaving the Justice Department, former assistant U.S. attorney general Jack Goldsmith describes his initial days at Justice in 2003 when he learned the extent of the government's operations. He tells Frontline he was shocked by the administration's assertion of expansive power.

Cheney opponents may point to tonight's Frontline as proof that he has exceeded his authority, while the vice president's supporters may largely approve of what Frontline reports about him, Kirk says. "It's in the eye of the beholder. If you remember the fear we all felt right after 9/11, you understand (Cheney's) impulse to cut through the red tape and get on with it. The question is, how long should you keep pushing the envelope?"
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 03:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The last paragraph says it all:

Quote:
Cheney opponents may point to tonight's Frontline as proof that he has exceeded his authority, while the vice president's supporters may largely approve of what Frontline reports about him, Kirk says. "It's in the eye of the beholder. If you remember the fear we all felt right after 9/11, you understand (Cheney's) impulse to cut through the red tape and get on with it. The question is, how long should you keep pushing the envelope?"


Not sure which program your excerpt was talking about, but Frontline appears to be fairly evenhanded and the quotes above really need to have some context to frame them in. Kirk's documentaries seem to revolve around an isolated incident or subject matter (in this case Cheney's alleged attempt to give Bush unlimited wartime powers) and do not attempt to build a case that Cheney is a shadow president. Instead, he sees Cheney as a VP wielding perhaps unprecedented influence in the WH, but he stays away from implying that this is untoward. It is instructive to see that Cheney wasn't trying to get unlimited wartime powers for himself, but for the President he works for.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 04:15 pm
These idiots have just got to get their memes running in sync. It makes one wonder how anyone with a brain can support such blatant disjunctions. They say one thing and then they contradict themselves in the next breath.

Quote:
Today, the New York Times published an article in which it examined the lobbying record of Rick Davis, Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) campaign manager. Based on interviews with current and former officials at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and public records, the Times found that over a period of five years, Davis made nearly $2 million lobbying for the two mortgage giants:

Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations, current and former officials say.

The McCain campaign’s response to the article was surprisingly vicious. On a conference call with reporters, McCain campaign strategist Steve Schmidt called the New York Times a “pro-Obama organization” and said, “it is not today " by any standard " a journalistic organization.” Davis claimed, “I never lobbied a single day.” Listen to a TPM Election Center recording here:

[see video at]

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/22/mccain-wants-davis-vetted/

But just yesterday, in an interview with McCain, CNBC’s John Harwood said he’d be “glad to have [Davis’s] record examined.” In a portion of the interview that does not appear to have been broadcast by CNBC, Harwood asked McCain about his campaign manager’s former lobbying activities:

HARWOOD: You mentioned cronyism and corruption on Wall Street and in Washington. … How do you square that with the fact that your campaign manager, Rick Davis, was involved in some lobbying activities on behalf of Fannie Mae? […]

MCCAIN: My campaign manager has stopped that, has had nothing to do with it since, and I’ll be glad to have his record examined by anybody who wants to look at it.

Examined by anybody…except journalists at the New York Times.

[source is the same link as above]

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 04:28 pm
WTF!! This is getting to be downright ridiculous. That there are still people who could actually start a thread like "Why I support John McCain" with stuff like this is beyond comprehension.

This is "cognitive dissonance" on a pathological scale.

Quote:
McCain’s ‘team of mavericks’ run by ‘old Bush hands.’

The Washington Post observes that many of the advisers on the McCain-Palin campaign are not “a group of outsiders to the Republican Party power structure,” but rather “skilled operatives who learned their crafts in successive Bush campaigns and various jobs across the Bush government over the past eight years“:

[O]thers, including some sympathetic Republicans, have begun to quietly question whether McCain and Palin are well served by strategists so firmly anchored in the Bush establishment when the candidates are presenting themselves as a “team of mavericks” and agents of change. One Republican with long-standing ties to the Bush administration described the situation as a paradox in which Palin is especially vulnerable.

One “Republican loyalist” noted that since Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) chose Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) as his running mate, “every single one of the senior aides that she’s brought on board had prominent roles in Bush’s White House or on his campaigns, or both.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/22/old-bush-hands/

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 04:34 pm
@JTT,
They've been doing a yeoman's job of McCain talking "bad" about the Bush administration and what's wrong with congress. Funny isn't it? McCain is being led by the Bush guard.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 06:59 pm
Why I support John McCain. His extensive knowledge of, well, pretty much everything.

Quote:


Candidates spend a lot of time talking, and they all misspeak sometimes. But did anyone else notice this, from Wednesday's much-covered McCain-Palin Town Hall event in Grand Rapids, Mich., where Palin answered questions from people in the audience? McCain said this near the end of the clip below, as he's talking up Palin's foreign policy/national security credentials:


"I also know, if I might remind you, that she is commander of the Alaska National Guard. In fact, you may know that on Sept. 11 a large contingent of the Alaska Guard deployed to Iraq and her son happened to be one of them. So I think she understands our national security challenges..."


The ceremony Palin attended at Fort Wainwright last week didn't involve the Alaska National Guard. Palin's son is in the Army, and his unit - 1st Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division - deployed to Iraq.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/giant-gaffe-mccain-confus_b_127918.html

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 07:12 pm
@JTT,
I knew this was coming; her "experience" with the Iraq war, because her son is there. Now she's ready to become cic.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 08:17 pm
Why I support John McCain. Because he'll continue with the same sound principles of Republican government, the ones that have, over the last eight years, made the USA a veritable paradise.

Quote:

The Bailout Plan: Welcome to Economic Shock and Awe

A. Huffington

See if this sounds familiar:

There is a gathering threat to the safety of the United States. We must take immediate action. Congress must quickly grant the President and the Secretary what they want and also give them full and unfettered authority to execute the plan.

Welcome to Economic Shock and Awe (or as some have dubbed it, according to Paul Krugman, "the Authorization for Use of Financial Force").

Even the amount of taxpayer money being bandied about -- $1 trillion -- is similar. Think you got your money's worth for the Iraq war? Congratulations -- you're about to buy another pricey debacle.

We've seen how negligent the Bush administration is with our money -- flushing billions on wasteful, mismanaged Iraq reconstruction and Katrina recovery projects.

Now the same folks who brought us those no-bid, profit-guaranteed, crony-friendly, war-and-disaster-profiteering boondoggles want us to hand them control of a $700 billion Wall Street slush fund -- with no strings attached. How dumb -- or frightened -- do they think we are?

This is, as Matt Yglesias calls it, "a crisis point for American liberalism." The battle lines are already clear: Paulson and Bush and the Republican Party want a license to reward the worst actors in the financial industry and do nothing for American families suffering the consequences.

Remember a few years ago when lawmaker after lawmaker -- mostly Democrats, but a few Republicans -- said of Iraq, "If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have voted differently."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Sep, 2008 08:49 pm
@JTT,
Quote from above post:
Quote:
Now the same folks who brought us those no-bid, profit-guaranteed, crony-friendly, war-and-disaster-profiteering boondoggles want us to hand them control of a $700 billion Wall Street slush fund -- with no strings attached. How dumb -- or frightened -- do they think we are?


It's no longer a question of whether we are dumb or not; it's about how dumb.
0 Replies
 
Parker Cross
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2008 12:18 am
@barackman28,
So apparently being a community organizer is one of those really difficult jobs that require adjectives like "peerless", "brilliant", and "remarkable" to be used when describing them. It's funny that given a Kate Moss-slim resume to try to tout a candidate so many of your leftest supporters must latch on to community organization like its the rocket science of politics.

I'm perfectly happy if you people will not support McCain, but at least admit that this is because of his politics and not because Obama is such a better alternative. The left does not want to admit that they should be just voting against the right. So they try to convince themselves that their latest offering is some Messianic statesman that has arisen out of the vast darkness of southern Chicago to lead a lost nation to the land of "hope" and "change".
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/22/2021 at 04:25:28