McCain and Palin: The Pretenders are Unfit to Lead

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I read two articles written by people who personally know the candidates and I hope all of you take the time to read them too:

Why I Won’t Vote for John McCain
August 25, 2008
by Phillip Butler, PhD "

"John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I won’t vote for him for President of the United States."

LINK TO FULL STORY:

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/08/25/why-i-won%E2%80%99t-vote-for-john-mccain/

About Sarah Palin
September 3, 2008
by Anne Kilkenny "

"I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child’s favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the residents of the city."

LINK TO FULL STORY:

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/03/about-sarah-palin/

***
The REAL John McCain and the REAL Sarah Palin are not at all what they publicly portray themselves to be. Will the voters fall in love with these pretenders? or will the voters be aware and wise enough to reject these pretenders? Let's discuss how these candidates falsely portray themselves and whether the REAL McCain and Palin are fit to lead our nation for the next four years.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 9 • Views: 9,532 • Replies: 151

@Debra Law,

I'd vote for Daffy Duck before I'd vote to put that Chicago machine anywhere near the whitehouse.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Actually, your man describes McCain as a total foul ball and screw-up at the academy. Problem is, a foul ball or screw-up or anybody else without his head on totally straight would never live for more than about fifteen seconds in a jet fighter plane.

http://www.laprogressive.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/philip_about.jpg

PHD in sociology.....

I mean, that would explain just about anything. Let me know if you manage to find somebody serious claiming John McCain is a foul ball.

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@Debra Law,

Too bad not many conservatives will see these truths about McCain's heroism, and Palin's leadership style as a mayor and governor.

McCain spent a good part of his acceptance speech talking about himself and his POW status as if he was THE only one who suffered torture. The facts are that many suffered more than two years that McCain suffered, but he failed to mention that simple fact in his speech. He also graduated fifth from the bottom of his class of 800 midshipmen - and many believe he graduated only because his father and grandfather graduated there, and his father was an admiral.

What's to admire about a man who self-promotes himself as a hero of Vietnam when there were many who did the same?

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@cicerone imposter,

How many of the other 800 ever flew jet fighters and survived it?

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@gungasnake,

gunga, You left out the important information on Dr Butler; he was also a POW for a longer period than McCain, and suffered torture for 4.5 years vs 2. years for McCain. That he's a Sociology doctor has nothing to do with what he wrote. Stick to the facts and/or the issues he wrote about, not the messenger.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

How many of those 800 flew a plane has nothing to do about their service to their country; bet you didn't know that.

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@cicerone imposter,

I'm making the charitable assumption that whatever the dude is suffereing from now is more a consequence of his mind being wrecked by American academia than of anything which happened to him in the service. To me the idea of a PHD in sociology basically indicates a wasted life; it's something no reasonable person would do to himself.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

To me the idea of a PHD in sociology basically indicates a wasted life; it's something no reasonable person would do to himself.

Exactamundo. I wonder who paid for his "education"?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Actually it does. Only the best, brightest, bravest, most daring and willing, get to fly the plane(s), boss.

Trust me I know this - my father was a pilot in WWII and for the remainder of his flyable life. They aren't passive loser people - not even close.

1 Reply

@cjhsa,

Do you always attack the best, brightest, bravest, most daring and willing for being not reasonable?

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Not that I think it makes a big deal of difference either way in qualifying for president, but in fact, McCain lost five fighter jets, four due to accidents and one due to combat.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm

What I find a little scary is his temper.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/51660.html

Quote:

Six people present have written statements describing what they saw. According to the accounts, McCain waved his hand to shoo away Jeannette Jenkins, whose cousin was last seen in South Vietnam in 1970, causing her to hit a wall.

As McCain continued walking, Jane Duke Gaylor, the mother of another missing serviceman, approached the senator. Gaylor, in a wheelchair equipped with portable oxygen, stretched her arms toward McCain.

"McCain stopped, glared at her, raised his left arm ready to strike her, composed himself and pushed the wheelchair away from him," according to Eleanor Apodaca, the sister of an Air Force captain missing since 1967.

McCain's staff wouldn't respond to requests for comment about specific incidents.

More at the link.

1 Reply

@cjhsa,

Still attacking the messenger, and not the message. Typical.

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I knew both Phil Butler (we were in the same battalion) and John McCain at the Naval Academy. I much prefer John McCain.

Butler's descriptions of McCain and his experiences in captivity don't contradict ANYTHING McCain himself has said. I note that his descriptions fault McCain only for being a rather unruly Midshipman (I was one too) and for spending less time than he in prision in North Vietnam - something that neither individual could either control or claim as a virtue or vice.

Butler went through a lot and was well taken care of by the Navy afterwards. A PhD in Sociology from San Diego State is not exactly a great academic achievement - nothing to sneer at to be sure, but certainly nothing that should trump public or individual perceptions of the merits of this Senator who has served with great distinction in positions far more challenging than those that face a former instructor in "Organizational Effectiveness" at the Naval Post Graduate School.

Butler's CV notes that he is now a "peace and justice activist with Veterans for Peace". It seems fairly obvious that it is his political views that are the real motive for his opposition to McCain, and not anything else. He is, of course, fully entitled to these views and to express them any way he wishes. However, this attempt to exploit his personal knowledge of and experiences with McCain - given that he has no real criticism other than he broke some rules at Annapolis - and to use the veneer of his supposed "scientific" credentials in sociology to imply that it is something more than that, is deliberately deceptive and truly contemptable.

Debra Law is, as well, very obviously motivated to oppose McCain and Republicans generally, presumably for political reasons. That too is her right, and she too is fully entitled to argue and campaign for her candidates any way she wishes. However, the evident fact that she here, and on other threads, has chosen to indulge in generally scurrilous personal attacks - often lacking much substance, instead of arguing the relative merits of the poilitical positions taken by the respective parties and their candidates, suggests - to me at least - that either she has very little of substance to say on serious matters, or that she is sufficiently contemptuous of most readers here on A2K to suppose that we will be taken in by this crap. (The fact that some - see above - are so taken in merely reminds us that there are partisan fools everywhere.)

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@georgeob1,

george, Nothing wrong with y0ur preference for McCain; especially under the circumstances of knowing both. However, we on the "outside" must rely on what we see and hear.

I find McCain's self-aggrandizement to be somewhat nauseating, but that's me!

1 Reply

@revel,

Revel said, "What I find a little scary is his temper."

I agree and go even further with regard to McCain's temperment. I believe McCain's hair-trigger temper, hot-headed outbursts, impulsiveness, and his penchant to hold grudges (among other unfavorable attibrutes) all make McCain unfit to be our president. I've discussed McCain's temperment on other threads. Although a McCain supporter may view this discussion as a scurrilous or slanderous personal attack, it is not scurrilous or slanderous at all because it's TRUE. An impulsive, hot-headed, vindictive person with a hair-trigger temper should not be elevated to the position of the world's most powerful person.

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@georgeob1,

Two short little paragraphs of deception from Gob1 and then he's off on one of his famous tangents. Actually Phil Butler said a lot about John, things that you don't want to face --- you've never been good at that, have you George?

I can see why you prefer McCain. You actually share a lot with him. You both pretend to be straight talkers. And you even got in that little, "Hey, I'm a bit of the maverick myself".

Quote:

It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush’s war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me, John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John’s views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

I’m disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate or maverick Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist minister. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he dislikes that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don’t see that John is the “straight talk express” he markets himself to be.

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@Debra Law,

I think that your case with respect to his "temper" is - at very best - a little thin.

I know the man. John McCain is NOT given to fits of rage or long-term grudges. He is NOT a hater. His remarkable bi-partisan initiatives in the Senate (some I disagreed with) and his initiatives in bringing about reconciliation with the government of Vietnam are illustrative of this. Odd that you chose to ignore these rather prominent aspects of his political career.

He is, instead, given to rather direct and sometimes profane expressions of opinion - traits that were fairly common, even the rule, in carrier ready rooms, but which most temper more with passing time afterwards. He is as given to evasion and selective prevarication as are most politicians - Obama included. However, he is also notable for his habitual candor - if often expressed in colorful, even profane, terms - compared to other politicians. Harry Truman had this trait too. All things considered I believe the tradeoffs here are quite favorable.

However, it is clear that you are, for your own reasons, bent on finding grist for your political mill and selectively interpreting whatever you can find to advance your cause. The fact that it is this sort of crap that so interests you and so dominates your "arguments" may be indicative of the general lack of substance in your case.

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Quote:

Maverick waves white flag to his party's far right

Linda Valdez

Democrats spent their convention demonstrating that George W. Bush has a loyal sidekick in John McCain, a senator they say voted with Bush 90 percent of the time.

The GOP spent last week trying to re-establish their candidate's independent credentials by distancing McCain from Bush, while also distancing the party from the issues that once qualified McCain for maverick status.

Sen. Joe Lieberman, former Democratic vice-presidential candidate and now candidate for the title of Most Despised Former Democrat, insisted from the floor of the GOP convention that McCain is his own man.

Sen. John Kerry, former Democratic presidential candidate who wears his Swift Boat scars with irony, pre-empted that argument the week before in Denver:

"To those who still believe in the myth of a maverick ... let's compare Senator McCain to candidate McCain.

"Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain's own climate-change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you're against it. ... Before he ever debates Barack Obama, John McCain should finish the debate with himself."

McCain did finish the debate with his party. He lost. The maverick now wears the GOP brand on the far-right flank.

McCain's position on banning abortion has historically included exemptions for rape, incest or to save the life of the mother. But this appears to be precluded by platform language that says an "unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed."

The platform leaves open the possibility of drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, something McCain opposes.

The platform specifically opposes "amnesty" for illegal immigrants, a misnomer used to discredit the path to citizenship that McCain included in his comprehensive immigration-reform package. The platform supports making English the "official language," something McCain has opposed.

Nevertheless, the Republicans want you to think they are as proud as punch of McCain's maverick credentials.

This is smart politics. Even the GOP doesn't want to stand too close to a GOP president who took a nation with a budget surplus and plunged it into debt and economic doldrums, who rushed into a war without exit and presided over a Justice Department that made tortured arguments for allowing torture.

The GOP puppet masters recognize George W. as Loser in Chief.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/2008/09/07/20080907vip-valdez0907.html

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@georgeob1,

I agree with you about the general assessment of the vapidity of this piece, and while I hadn't wanted to contribute to the thread I do have a question for you in particular if you have time to answer it:

How hawkish would you say McCain is? I don't care much about his "temper" per se, but I do care if he inordinately defines himself through his military past in a manner that would make him inordinately willing to employ the military and lead it as a "military man".

My take is that he's too hawkish for my preference in these times but I'd be interested in hearing your take if you have any personal insight into that.

1 Reply

McCain and Palin: The Pretenders are Unfit to Lead

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