McCain is blowing his election chances.

Damn-- I put this in the wrong thread.

Obama sidestepped vote 130 times...

I don't respect the "present" vote at all, cyclo. I understand that voting records of Senators can come back to bite you in the ass (who can forget the Great John Kerry's famous line, "But what you don't know is I voted FOR it before I voted against it."

Sometimes, you have to vote your conscience and let the chips fall... I don't buy the procedure thing.

He must have imagined presidential aspirations early...

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McGentrix wrote:

McCain is Forgetting the First Rule of Fight Club

What the McCainiacs should stop doing is using their man as a prop in a supermarket, as if he is somebody's grandfather in a suit and tie shopping for groceries. That is not who John McCain is to Americans.

I really feel like the republican party doesn't agree with McCain's stance on things, so they just can't bring themselves to promote him on his strengths because they don't agree with them. And McCain can't play the role they want him to play because he's too honest.

If McCain really has the balls that he's supposed to have, then he should put is foot down and make those clowns snap to attention and get in line behind him. I think more voters would respect that because it's what you would expect a strong leader to do.

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Where come the the chance to pick up the cola and cola light?
Democracy is not there in USA

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Lash wrote:

Damn-- I put this in the wrong thread.

Obama sidestepped vote 130 times...

I don't respect the "present" vote at all, cyclo. I understand that voting records of Senators can come back to bite you in the ass (who can forget the Great John Kerry's famous line, "But what you don't know is I voted FOR it before I voted against it."

Sometimes, you have to vote your conscience and let the chips fall... I don't buy the procedure thing.

He must have imagined presidential aspirations early...

You ought to buy the procedure thing, for that's exactly why he and other Dem senators voted the way that they did. It's the same reason Harry Reid often votes against bills he supported in the Senate. A common thing.

Cycloptichorn

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Re: McCain is blowing his election chances.

McGentrix wrote:

Yet, his campaign is in the crapper. It makes me wonder why he is surrounding himself with people that can't 1: keep their mouths shut and not come off as extreme right elitists and 2: keep his campaign about his qualifications and accomplishments.

He needed to keep his own mouth shut. As soon as he opened it and described his plan to deregulate the insurance companies, he totally lost me.

He doesn't need any help to come off as a "right wing elitist." He does that all by himself.

Quote:

Hell, even I am becoming an Obama fan

Yep, I'll be voting for Obama.

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Cyclo,
The tide continues to turn toward McCain....First the USA Today showed McCain ahead, then Rasmussen, and now Zogby. You'll tell me he's still not ahead in the Electoral College (which he's not), but at this pace, he'll be there by the middle of Sep.

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rosborne979 wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
McCain is Forgetting the First Rule of Fight Club

What the McCainiacs should stop doing is using their man as a prop in a supermarket, as if he is somebody's grandfather in a suit and tie shopping for groceries. That is not who John McCain is to Americans.

I really feel like the republican party doesn't agree with McCain's stance on things, so they just can't bring themselves to promote him on his strengths because they don't agree with them. And McCain can't play the role they want him to play because he's too honest.

If McCain really has the balls that he's supposed to have, then he should put is foot down and make those clowns snap to attention and get in line behind him. I think more voters would respect that because it's what you would expect a strong leader to do.

I am one of those folks who don't agree with John McCain on everything, but will vote for him.

Folks like me don't need to be 'snapped to attention' or 'told to get in line'.

I make up my own mind, thanks.

I'll promote his strengths and work to change or limit his ability to implement what I disagree with. Same as with Bush. Same as with Clinton before him. Same as with Bush before him. Same as with Reagan before him. Same as with Carter before him. Same .......................

What you'd really like is to see John McCain split the right so that Obama can easily win.

You have no desire to see McCain 'express his leadership'. What a bunch of baloney.

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real life wrote:

You have no desire to see McCain 'express his leadership'. What a bunch of baloney.

The idea that McCain could 'express his leadership' is what is a bunch of baloney.

'express his leadership'; that's real nuts, "real life".

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McCain has a history of supporting things that he knows will bring him grief from his own party. He has done so because he thought it was the right thing to do.

'Present' Obama has a history of dodging tough votes in the Illinois legislature.

I'll leave it to the reader to decide which more closely resembles 'leadership'.

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real life wrote:

McCain has a history of supporting things that he knows will bring him grief from his own party. He has done so because he thought it was the right thing to do.

McCain wouldn't know the right thing if it slapped him in the face. But I'm not surprised that you trot out the old maverick routine. That schtick; sensible folk saw thru that long long ago.

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JTT wrote:

real life wrote:
McCain has a history of supporting things that he knows will bring him grief from his own party. He has done so because he thought it was the right thing to do.

McCain wouldn't know the right thing if it slapped him in the face. But I'm not surprised that you trot out the old maverick routine. That schtick; sensible folk saw thru that long long ago.

And how would you define 'right' and 'wrong'?

Do you hold an objective view of right and wrong? Or subjective?

If right and wrong are subjective, how are you going to assert that John McCain didn't do what was right, except it be only in your personal opinion?

And why should others assign any value to your personal opinion of what is right and wrong?

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real life wrote:

Folks like me don't need to be 'snapped to attention' or 'told to get in line'.

You're not on his campaign staff, so I wasn't talking about you.

real life wrote:

What you'd really like is to see John McCain split the right so that Obama can easily win.

Obama's going to win easily anyway, but I prefer to see McCain go down being the man he is instead of what someone tells him to be. Just look at the poor guy, he stumbles over the prepared speeches he's been given, and he looks like he's in anguish every time he has to say something which is obviously counter to his own beliefs.

real life wrote:

You have no desire to see McCain 'express his leadership'.

Sure I do. I think he's got a better chance of winning that way than the way he's going now (even though no matter what way he goes it's a long shot for him).

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real life wrote:

McCain has a history of supporting things that he knows will bring him grief from his own party. He has done so because he thought it was the right thing to do.

And that's admirable, which is why it's a real shame he seems to have stopped doing it.

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I think McCain has great leadership qualities.

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real life wrote:

McCain has a history of supporting things that he knows will bring him grief from his own party. He has done so because he thought it was the right thing to do.

'Present' Obama has a history of dodging tough votes in the Illinois legislature.

I'll leave it to the reader to decide which more closely resembles 'leadership'.

Yet this is the exact problem I have with him today. In 2000, I voted for him and would have in the general election. I would have voted for him in 2004 had he run against Kerry. But today, he has repudiated all of his principled stands from 2000-2006. He's supporting the tax cuts he rightly said were inappropriate during times of war and high deficits. He's backed away from immigration reform when the proposal he originally suggested was an excellent compromise. He's turned his back on the maverick I liked and become a pale immitation of Bush. At least Bush believed in the stuff he proposed.

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Perhaps he recognizes that the Bush tax cuts have kept the economy going in spite of the doomsday predictions made at the time.

Perhaps he recognizes that public support for his immigration package was not there because his emphasis was wrong. The public is much more concerned with border security FIRST, not as an afterthought. So he has rethought his priorities but not abandoned his goals.

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BBB
McCain is no longer McCain. His body has been taken over by the Karl Rove et al crowd of scumbags, liars and phonies in the Republican party. He has to parrot the claims they invent and read the speeches they write for him. There is no real McCain left except his ambition. He has done what he's always done, suck up to money and power. Sad ending for an old man.

BBB

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real life wrote:

The media will continue to handle Obama with kid gloves far into his first term, if he gets the nod.

FACT CHECK

NB. Please note that the Center for Media and Public Affairs, cited below, describes itself as non-partisan but has been criticized as being conservative politically.

Wikipedia: "The media watchdog group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has challenged CMPA's non-partisan claim, based on the argument that much of its funding has come from conservative sources, and that its founder, Dr. S. Robert Lichter, once held a chair in mass communications at the American Enterprise Institute and was a Fox News contributor."

OK, now that we've got that out of the way, here's its most recent press release:

Quote:

MEDIA BASH BARACK (NOT A TYPO)

Study Finds Obama Faring Worse On TV News Than McCain

Barack Obama is getting more negative coverage than John McCain on TV network evening news shows, reversing Obama's lead in good press during the primaries, according to a new study by Center for Media and Public Affairs (CMPA). The study also finds that a majority of both candidates' coverage is unfavorable for the first time this year. According to CMPA President Dr. S. Robert Lichter, "Obama replaced McCain as the media's favorite candidate after New Hampshire. But now the networks are voting no on both candidates."

Continue reading...

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nimh wrote:

real life wrote:
The media will continue to handle Obama with kid gloves far into his first term, if he gets the nod.

FACT CHECK

NB. Please note that the Center for Media and Public Affairs, cited below, describes itself as non-partisan but has been criticized as being conservative politically.

Wikipedia: "The media watchdog group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has challenged CMPA's non-partisan claim, based on the argument that much of its funding has come from conservative sources, and that its founder, Dr. S. Robert Lichter, once held a chair in mass communications at the American Enterprise Institute and was a Fox News contributor."

OK, now that we've got that out of the way, here's its most recent press release:

Quote:
MEDIA BASH BARACK (NOT A TYPO)

Study Finds Obama Faring Worse On TV News Than McCain

Barack Obama is getting more negative coverage than John McCain on TV network evening news shows, reversing Obama's lead in good press during the primaries, according to a new study by Center for Media and Public Affairs (CMPA). The study also finds that a majority of both candidates' coverage is unfavorable for the first time this year. According to CMPA President Dr. S. Robert Lichter, "Obama replaced McCain as the media's favorite candidate after New Hampshire. But now the networks are voting no on both candidates."

Continue reading...

I don't recall that I said that Obama is getting BETTER treatment than McCain.

He's just getting an easy road.

I wasn't comparing one with the other.

John McCain has been careful to cultivate the media to avoid another near crucifixion as in the Keating five incident. They like him but they are pretty much ignoring him at this point . I've not made the case that he is being dissed by the media or treated unfavorably in comparison to Barry.

The media are treating Obama like a rockstar. This is undeniable. They generally avoid tough questions, nor do they examine his proposals in detail, nor ask why detailed proposals for some issues aren't given.

They will continue to treat him well until far into his first term , if elected.

At some point the wheels will come off when his lack of experience and his arrogance begin to chafe those in his own party.

His policies of no new drilling will not work and he's lately started to fudge on it to avoid an electoral backlash, but once in office he'll renege.

His high tax promises have already prompted major corporations to prepare to move overseas to tax havens like Dubai.

His inevitable backtrack on his 16 month promise on Iraq will be a bitter pill for those in his party and he likely will have a significant primary challenger from the left in 2012.

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real life wrote:

Perhaps he recognizes that the Bush tax cuts have kept the economy going in spite of the doomsday predictions made at the time.

Perhaps he recognizes that public support for his immigration package was not there because his emphasis was wrong. The public is much more concerned with border security FIRST, not as an afterthought. So he has rethought his priorities but not abandoned his goals.

We could take that debate to another thread. I've started a couple of tax philosophy threads, but in short, there is ample evidence that what "kept the economy going" was not tax cuts, but deficit spending and there is also ample evidence that the tax cuts resulted in spending on things that are in the long term detrimental to our economy. Finally, as McCain once recognized, during war, it is the responsibility of all Americans to step forward to contribute. For some, that means saying goodbye to their families, carrying a rifle and possibly paying the utimate price. For the rest of us, that means cutting back and paying the price of war in terms of taxes. Once upon a time he knew that. I guess he forgot somewhere.

As for immigration, part of governing is answering the real problems, not the preceived problems. Border security with Mexico is not a real problem. No terrorists are coming in that way. Drug runners are not stopped by a fence. McCain's original compromise looked to penalize illegal immigrants while supporting a reasonable immigration policy that met the country's needs for labor. It answered the real problem, not the preceived problem. It was a real legislative accomplishment, an example of why we have a representative form of government instead of a true democracy. What McCain has now is just pandering.

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McCain is blowing his election chances.

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