36
   

McCain is blowing his election chances.

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Nov, 2013 01:14 pm
The photos of the US leaving Saigon are pretty telling.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Nov, 2013 01:38 pm
@Builder,
Do you realize that your link is to an article from 2011?

That issue is dead, that amendment failed 2 years ago.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 01:08 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
I've schooled you once before on this, Romeo. If it is your intention to remain an ignorant prick until the day you die, so be it. You are from this day forward deemed, Ignorant Prick.

There was no South Vietnam. It was all a ruse, US installed dictators that the people of the South hated. For dog's sake, the US assassinated its own installed dictator. The US, Eisenhower, the war criminal all knew that the people of Vietnam overwhelmingly supported an independent Vietnam, just as it is today, free from the predacious jackals that are the US and the UK, not to mention France.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 01:25 pm
When South Vietnam said to America- "Please help us resist the commie North Vietnam invasion", America said "You betcha!" and stepped up to the plate..Smile

Captain Robert Bacon leads a company of South Vietnamese troops on patrol, 1964-
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub1/nam-patrol-1964.jpg

edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 01:32 pm
Anybody who can glorify the Vietnam War either wasn't around then or sustained severe brain damage.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 01:34 pm
@edgarblythe,
Romeo is simply an Ignorant Prick.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 01:36 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
"The only thing they told us about the Viet Cong was they were gooks. They were to be killed. Nobody sits around and gives you their historical and cultural background. They're the enemy. Kill, kill, kill. That's what we got in practice. Kill, kill, kill."

A Vietnam veteran on basic training.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 01:53 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
When South Vietnam said to America- "Please help us resist the commie North Vietnam invasion", America said "You betcha!" and stepped up to the plate..


What's with your grand desire to illustrate to all that you are an ignorant know nothing, Romeo?

The people of the south were telling the Americans, loud and clear, get the hell out of my country you savage war criminals. And McCain was one of them.

Quote:
Vietnam: The War the U.S. Lost
by Joe Allen
International Socialist Review, January/February 2004

Racism and total war
"The only thing they told us about the Viet Cong was they were gooks. They were to be killed. Nobody sits around and gives you their historical and cultural background. They're the enemy. Kill, kill, kill. That's what we got in practice. Kill, kill, kill."
A Vietnam veteran on basic training.


What was the American war like for the majority of people in South Vietnam, where the bulk of the fighting took place? While Westmoreland's war of attrition would ultimately prove unable to break the will of the Vietnamese people, it did unleash incredible destruction on them. According to antiwar critic Noam Chomsky,

In a very real sense the overall U.S. effort in South Vietnam was a huge and deliberately imposed bloodbath. Military escalation was undertaken to offset the well-understood lack of any significant social and political support for the elite military faction [the Saigon government] supported by the United States.

This "huge and deliberately imposed bloodbath" consisted first and foremost of large-scale bombing. Bombing was, and still is, one of the great sacred cows of the American way of war.' America's incredible industrial infrastructure allowed it to build a huge air force and virtually a limitless amount of ordnance during the Cold War. The B-52, which was originally designed for dropping nuclear weapons on Russia, was re-fitted for "conventional" warfare in Vietnam with devastating results. The U.S. dropped over one million tons of bombs on North Vietnam. South Vietnam, the primary battlefield of the war, had over four million tons of bombs dropped on it during the war. The amount of bombs dropped by the U.S. on South Vietnam, from the air war alone, was double the tonnage it used in all of the Second World War! Life was made unbearable in the South Vietnamese countryside. While it is probably an underestimate, the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on Refugees reported the civilian casualties at 400,000 dead, 900,000 wounded and 6.4 million refugees by 1971. They concluded "that there is hardly a family n South Vietnam that has not suffered a death, injury or the anguish of abandoning an ancient homestead."

The Vietnamese people were subjected to the virulent racism of the occupying American army. The Vietnamese people were regularly referred to as "gooks," "slants" and "dinks" by American troops. It's important to remember that this racism started with the top brass. General Westmoreland believed that the "oriental doesn't value life in the same way as a westerner." While this could be dismissed as the casual bigotry of a son of a rich southern family, in other cases it bordered on the genocidal. Colonel George S. Patton III, son of the notorious Second World War general and a combat commander in Vietnam, sent out Christmas cards in 1968 which read: "From Colonel and Mrs. George S. Patton III-Peace on Earth." The attached Christmas cards contained photographs of Viet Cong soldiers dismembered and stacked in a pile. This racism worked its way down to the troops through basic training. As one combat veteran recalled basic training, "The only thing they told us about the Viet Cong was they were gooks. They were to be killed."

It was during search-and-destroy missions that the most direct contact took place between American soldiers, Vietnamese civilians and NLF supporters. For historian Christian Appy, "search and destroy was the principal tactic; and the enemy body count was the primary measure of progress" in Westmoreland's war of attrition. Search and destroy was coined as a phrase in 1965 to describe missions aimed at flushing the Viet Cong out of hiding, while the body count was the measuring stick for the success of any operation. Competitions were held between units for the highest number of Vietnamese killed in action, or KIAs. Army and marine officers knew that promotions were largely based on confirmed kills. The pressure to produce confirmed kills resulted in massive fraud. One study revealed that American commanders exaggerated body counts by 100 percent.

It also resulted in atrocities. "As much as the military command might deny its significance, the widespread local support for the full-time main forces of the NLF and NVA was the central disadvantage faced by American soldiers." Villagers would supply the NLF with soldiers, food and assistance in the planting of land mines. What many U.S. soldiers feared most were
land mines and then ambushes. Soldiers would become demoralized by weeks of mundane patrolling and then they would be hit unexpectedly by the explosion of land mines or an ambush. Enraged soldiers would go back to the nearest area they had just been through and brutalize the villagers in a racist fury. The effect of fighting a total war on an entire population was to create a situation where all Vietnamese people were seen as fair game to kill. The most famous case of this (but by no means the only one) was the
My Lai massacre in March 1968, where Charlie Company, led by Captain Ernest Medina and Lieutenant William Calley, murdered over 350 unarmed women and children. An army psychiatrist reported later that, "Lt. Calley states that he did not feel as if he were killing human beings rather they were animals with whom one could not speak or reason." My Lai was not an aberration-smaller, unreported My Lais happened throughout the war.

James Duffy, a machinegunner on a Chinook helicopter for Company A of the 228th Aviation Battalion, 1st Airborne Division, served from February 1967 to April 1968. Testifying at the "Winter Soldier" investigation, held in Detroit in 1971, he reported one incident he was involved in:
I swung my machine gun onto this group of peasants and opened fire. Fortunately, the gun jammed after one or two rounds, which was pretty lucky, because this group of peasants turned out to be a work party hired by the government to clear the area and there was Gls guarding them about fifty meters away. But my mind was so psyched out into killing gooks that I never even paid attention to look around and see where I was. I just saw gooks and I wanted to kill them. I was pretty scared after that happened because that sort of violated the unwritten code that you can do anything you want to as long as you don't get caught. That's, I guess that's what happened with the My Lai incident. Those guys just were following the same pattern that we've been doing there for ten years, but they had the misfortune of getting caught at it.

When the Americans decided that an area could not be "pacified" they would turn it into a "free-fire zone" where anyone could be shot on sight, and which were subject to constant artillery barrages. In other areas, the Americans would literally plow the land down using huge Rome plows-giant bulldozers. The most famous case of this was the "Iron triangle." A 32-mile perimeter 22 miles north of Saigon and an NLF bastion of support, it was first flattened by B-52s and artillery fire beginning in January 1967, and then the plows moved in and bulldozed everything in sight. Despite this, the NLF built a vast area of tunnels and was operating in the area again within six months. If bombing and plowing couldn't deny an area to the NLF, the U.S. would use defoliants, such as the cancer-causing Agent Orange and other herbicides, to destroy jungle cover and food. The U.S. dropped over 100 million pounds of herbicides across Vietnam during the war with long-lasting effects on the Vietnamese and American soldiers. The U.S. simply turned whole swaths of Vietnam into dead zones. The mindset of the military command can be summed up by the slogan painted on the wall of the U.S. Army's Ninth Division helicopter headquarters during Operation Speed Express: "Death is our business and business is good."

The bitterness and demoralization among troops also encouraged a growing resistance to the war, in the form of going AWOL (Absent Without Leave), avoiding combat, "fragging" officers, and even active political resistance. This development contributed greatly to the eventual defeat of the U.S. in Vietnam.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Asia/Vietnam_War_US_Lost.html
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 03:02 pm
Eat this Charlie..Smile

Battleship USS New Jersey hammers North Vietnamese positions, 1968
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/New-J-Tonkin-1968_zps248d3d44.jpg~original
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 03:11 pm
@JTT,
John McCain used to use the word "gooks" until I wrote to him to stop it, and he did.

McCain is a hard man to understand because of the conflicting messages he sends by his actions. In 2000, he could have received my vote, but his personality changed since that time. Sometimes, he does the rights things, and at others, he becomes a mystery man. He lost me in 2008.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 05:33 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
So you are an apologist for war criminals, Romeo. Likely you would have dropped to your knees for Hitler.

Do terrorist assaults against innocent men, women and children really get you off that much?

Quote:
PRESIDENT HO CHI MINH'S REPLY TO PRESIDENT JOHNSON'S LETTER

February 15, 1967

Excellency, on February 10, 1967, I received your message. Here is my response.

Viet-Nam is situated thousands of miles from the United States. The Vietnamese people have never done any harm to the United States. But, contrary to the commitments made by its representative at the Geneva Conference of 1954, the United States Government has constantly intervened in Viet-Nam, it has launched and intensified the war of aggression in South Viet-Nam for the purpose of prolonging the division of Viet-Nam and of transforming South Viet-Nam into an American neo-colony and an American military base. For more than two years now, the American Government, with its military aviation and its navy, has been waging war against the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, an independent and sovereign country.

The United States Government has committed war crimes, crimes against peace and against humanity. In South Viet-Nam a half-million American soldiers and soldiers from the satellite countries have resorted to the most inhumane arms and the most barbarous methods of warfare, such as napalm, chemicals, and poison gases in order to massacre our fellow countrymen, destroy the crops, and wipe out the villages. In North Viet-Nam thousands of American planes have rained down hundreds of thousands of tons of bombs, destroying cities, villages, mills, roads, bridges, dikes, dams and even churches, pagodas, hospitals, and schools. In your message you appear to deplore the suffering and the destruction in Viet-Nam. Permit me to ask you: Who perpetrated these monstrous crimes? It was the American soldiers and the soldiers of the satellite countries. The United States Government is entirely responsible for the extremely grave situation in Viet-Nam. . . .

The Vietnamese people deeply love independence, liberty, and peace. But in the face of the American aggression they have risen up as one man, without fearing the sacrifices and the privations. They are determined to continue their resistance until they have won real independence and liberty and true peace. Our just cause enjoys the approval and the powerful support of peoples throughout the world and of large segments of the American people.

The United States Government provoked the war of aggression in Viet-Nam. It must cease that aggression, it is the only road leading to the re-establishment of peace. The United States Government must halt definitively and unconditionally the bombings and all other acts of war against the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, withdraw from South Viet-Nam all American troops and all troops from the satellite countries, recognize the National Front of the Liberation of South Viet-Nam and let the Vietnamese people settle their problems themselves. Such is the basic content of the four-point position of the Government of the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, such is the statement of the essential principles and essential arrangements of the Geneva agreements of 1954 on Viet-Nam. It is the basis for a correct political solution of the Vietnamese problem. In your message you suggested direct talks between the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam and the United States. If the United States Government really wants talks, it must first halt unconditionally the bombings and all other acts of war against the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam. It is only after the unconditional halting of the American bombings and of all other American acts of war against the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam that the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam and the United States could begin talks and discuss questions affecting the two parties.

The Vietnamese people will never give way to force, it will never accept conversation under the clear threat of bombs.

Our cause is absolutely just. It is desirable that the Government of the United States act in conformity to reason.

Sincerely,

Ho Chi Minh
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 05:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
John McCain used to use the word "gooks" until I wrote to him to stop it, and he did.


And here you thought that it wasn't government by the people, CI.

Quote:
McCain is a hard man to understand ...


That doesn't alter the fact one iota that McCain is a war criminal, a very lucky war criminal. Had he been treated in the manner that the US military treated the Vietnamese, he could easily have been just another terrorist buried in the jungle.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 05:40 pm
Eat this Uncle Ho..Smile

B-52 vs Charlie
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/CMSF/B52-Nam_zps2ab4afff.jpg~original
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/CMSF/B52-Nam-1965_zpsa7ccc48a.jpg~original
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 05:47 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
You really are a pathetic sick little wanker, Romeo Fabulously Ignorant.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 05:54 pm
Nowadays Charlie's tunnel complexes are a tourist attraction.
Go baby, flush out any Cong still down there..Smile
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/tunnel-tourist.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Photos/tunnel3.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Photos/tunnel5.jpg
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 06:06 pm
@JTT,
For once, I agree.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 06:32 pm
Quote:
Mysteryman profile: I'm a navy veteran, and am a veteran of Iraq, Afghanistan, Desert Storm, and Somalia

Good for you mate, there's nothing wrong with going round invading other peoples countries and killing them if they ask for it..Smile
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 06:44 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
You sound like Oralloy, but much much sicker, Romeo Fabulously Ignorant.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2013 06:45 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
For once, I agree.


That must give you a fabulous feeling, MM, being right for once. Smile
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Nov, 2013 04:49 pm
What a tragedy that the Reps didn't make Sarah Palin their front-runner against Obama instead of McCain or she'd be President by now!
Sarah visits USS Stennis in 2009-

SARAH- "What's that red button for Captain?"
CAPTAIN- "Careful ma'am, don't touch it or it'll lanch a nuclear airstrike against North Korea!"
SARAH- "Oh I see....Er... you go get yourself a coffee and i'll look after the bridge, I promise not to accidentally touch that button, you can trust me, honest"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub1/Palin-onStennis-Jun09.jpg
 

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