1
   

Please Answer This Question Obama Supporters

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:05 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
There are over 700 people working for him; another 4000 or so volunteers who are 'regulars,' and another 10k who volunteer from time to time. How would you, dear reader, like to be held responsible for every comment and decision made by 18 thousand or so people?

If this excuse applies to Obama, it applies in spades to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, an independent civic organization that Bush had no personal control over. This excuse stinks.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:07 am
On the other hand, did Bush come out and denounce and disavow them? (fully allowing the possibility that he did -- my memory sucks ass)
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:10 am
If he had it would have been meaningless after so many times crying wolf.... which is what Obama better be careful of..
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:10 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Of course, for some haters, nothing he does will ever be good enough.

Cycloptichorn


This is all an act, right?
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:11 am
Kinda. He disavowed 501Ks in general, without mentioning names.

Anyway, the excuse I'm objecting to is "well he can't control everything". It doesn't apply to the cleanup after things got out of control.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:11 am
haters is just a slang term currently popular with kids....
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:12 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
If he had it would have been meaningless after so many times crying wolf.... which is what Obama better be careful of..


Yes, it does go to credibility. Let's be careful, though, and not draw moral equivalences between distasteful image control and character smearing of the worst kind.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:13 am
PS: My last comment was an answer to FreeDuck.
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:14 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
haters is just a slang term currently popular with kids....


and George Bush
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:15 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
If he had it would have been meaningless after so many times crying wolf.... which is what Obama better be careful of..


Yes, it does go to credibility. Let's be careful, though, and not draw moral equivalences between distasteful image control and character smearing of the worst kind.


moral is not a word I would apply to the character of any POLITICIAN :wink:
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:15 am
Gala wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
haters is just a slang term currently popular with kids....


and George Bush



uh.... the distinction?
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:21 am
Gala wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
haters is just a slang term currently popular with kids....


and George Bush



uh.... the distinction?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:48 am
Thomas wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
There are over 700 people working for him; another 4000 or so volunteers who are 'regulars,' and another 10k who volunteer from time to time. How would you, dear reader, like to be held responsible for every comment and decision made by 18 thousand or so people?

If this excuse applies to Obama, it applies in spades to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, an independent civic organization that Bush had no personal control over. This excuse stinks.


Let me clarify: while Obama is responsible for the comments of those beneath him in his campaign (or just associated with him in life), there is a limited amount of control he can exert over their every word or decision.

He has the responsibility to deal with the consequences, which he has done in pretty much every case. But it's a stretch to think that every thing said or done on his campaign is a result of policies or actions sanctioned by Obama.

That has been my objection all along in this thread; not that something bad happened, not that they shouldn't have apologized, but that it represents a trend. I do not believe that it does. Over the course of a very grueling 5 month campaign, and now heading into the general election, there have been a handful of incidents, maybe? Not bad for a large organization with many semi-independent actors.

I don't understand the comparison to the swift boaters, in honesty. They were a group specifically designed to trash Kerry; it doesn't seem analogous to the current situation.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 09:53 am
if it's happened enough to make people question and talk about it... consider that maybe Obama is just another politican after all... and people are questioning and reacting that way... not just "haters"... then it's a trend. A small trend perhaps but a trend nonetheless..... and trends, like anything else that gains momentum.... can snowball if care isn't taken.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 10:04 am
But the "thing" that's happened more than once is nothing more sinister than image control. Yes, we don't like it, but let's not make it into something more than it is.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 10:12 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
if it's happened enough to make people question and talk about it... consider that maybe Obama is just another politican after all... and people are questioning and reacting that way... not just "haters"... then it's a trend. A small trend perhaps but a trend nonetheless..... and trends, like anything else that gains momentum.... can snowball if care isn't taken.


The problem is, that some people claimed he wasn't a politician. I don't recall him or his campaign ever doing that; just them saying that they would run a clean campaign instead of a dirty one, and one which focuses on policy differences instead of personal ones. To date he's been pretty good about that.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 10:15 am
Freeduck......Tell that to John Kerry...
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 10:19 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
if it's happened enough to make people question and talk about it... consider that maybe Obama is just another politican after all... and people are questioning and reacting that way... not just "haters"... then it's a trend. A small trend perhaps but a trend nonetheless..... and trends, like anything else that gains momentum.... can snowball if care isn't taken.


The problem is, that some people claimed he wasn't a politician. I don't recall him or his campaign ever doing that; just them saying that they would run a clean campaign instead of a dirty one, and one which focuses on policy differences instead of personal ones. To date he's been pretty good about that.

Cycloptichorn


who claimed he wasn't a politician? Who specifically?
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H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 10:20 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:


I don't understand the comparison to the swift boaters, in honesty.
They were a group specifically designed to trash Kerry;


Yeah, the honest truth about Kerry did end up trashing him.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2008 10:21 am
true or not true.... it was an image thing....
0 Replies
 
 

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