Please Answer This Question Obama Supporters

Thomas wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, you aren't really interested in advancing progressive policies,

Then why didn't you support Kucinic?

Who told you that I don't support Kucinich?

I like Kucinich, and even donated money to his campaign this year. It's unfortunate that he will never be a prominent leader.

He ought to tamp down the space aliens in his back yard story, tho. Not exactly confidence-inspiring.

Cycloptichorn

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I stand corrected then.

You're bigoted against space aliens? What kind of science fiction fan are you? Smile

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Thomas wrote:

I stand corrected then.

You're bigoted against space aliens? What kind of science fiction fan are you?

The well-read kind! Smile

Cycloptichorn

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

the smarmy insulting remark train....right on time.... being driven by Ms. Cyclo....

The irony is going to make my head explode.

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good.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Well, you aren't really interested in advancing progressive policies, if you don't support the most progressive candidate. So it's fair to say that those who place their loyalties in the wrong order have some serious confusion about their identities.

Btw, those two ladies who were discriminated against?

Quote:
They released a statement about it to The New York Times:

At the rally for Senator Obama in Detroit on Monday, June 16, two volunteers denied us seating behind the stage the Senator would soon take. The volunteers informed us that we were not allowed to sit in that area due to the hijab, the headscarf that each of us was wearing.

This incident was unfortunate and extremely disappointing. Senator Obama has called us each to personally convey his deepest apologies and acknowledge that this was inexcusable. We both immensely appreciate the Senator's phone call and his commitment to remedy this issue. We commend him for displaying qualities befitting an effective President. We acknowledge that this injustice has been taken seriously and that Senator Obama does not tolerate discrimination against Arabs, Muslims or any community. We are assured that he and his staff are committed to upholding the principles of justice for all peoples and bringing about change we can believe in. The infringement on our rights occurred and has been addressed; now we are ready to move forward. We will continue to support Senator Obama in his campaign and wish him the best as the race continues.

Regards,
Shimaa Abdelfadeel
Hebba Aref

Cycloptichorn

Likely found in Section F, page 18, lower left hand corner.
No?

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FreeDuck wrote:

"she is a bigger shark" is the only reason I saw there. I'm asking why you think that. What did she do or say to make you believe that she can run the country better?

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Doesn't seem like a very well-defined thought, eh?

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Well.... I don't know. As I said before: on an emotional level, I can understand part of the attraction of that.

I'd just like to know whether this is the only reason why BPB is supporting Hillary and opposing Obama.... or if there's any other reason.

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as I said Old Europe... have stated my reasons many times over the last year on this forum.... and my reasons and opinions have remained steady. I have been cross examined ad nauseum and I have not wavered. If I do I'll let you know, but I'm tired of constantly repeating myself.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

I'm tired of constantly repeating myself.

That's news to me.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

as I said Old Europe... have stated my reasons many times over the last year on this forum.... and my reasons and opinions have remained steady.

Seriously though. I've been reading along here, even if I don't post as often as other members. I see that you've been backing Hillary at least for the last three years.

However - at least as far as I've been paying attention - the only reason you've ever given was that she was a "strong candidate".

That's cool. But it also seems like you never seriously considered that somebody else might come up as a viable candidate on the Democratic side. You've gotten used to the idea that Hillary would be the candidate for years.

And now there's this new kid on the block. He's doing well, his rhetoric is more about "we have to change the way things work" rather than about "we have to fight the Republicans". And now he's made it to the point where he's the presumptive candidate for the Democrats.

And you resent that.

And you never get tired of pointing out that he, too, is just a politician. He's not the messiah. He's in it because he wants to win. He's just playing the game, too.

Okay. Got that.

So: if Obama is not the messiah, is just a politician, too, etc. etc.: isn't that part of why you supported Hillary? Why, all of a sudden, is it a reason to oppose Obama?

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A, you apparently haven't paid that much attention because I've made it clear that my first choice was always Joe Biden and that I intend to write in for him on the ballot this year.

B, Hillary, although just another politician, has been way more upfront about it IMO. I don't like ANYONE who claims the moral high ground when they have no legitimate claim to it in any walk of life. It is a defining thing that will put me off them permanently. Clear enough?

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

A, you apparently haven't paid that much attention because I've made it clear that my first choice was always Joe Biden and that I intend to write in for him on the ballot this year.

I've been paying attention. Yes, you said that your intention is to do a write-in for him. That, in an ideal world, he would be your candidate.

You've also, constantly, said that you're looking towards the general election, and that's why you support Hillary. Again, I think you took it for granted that Hillary would wrap up the nomination.

But hey, I'll take your word for it that you're a Biden supporter.

So I'm wondering.... a quick search of your posts for "Biden" comes up with 29 results. On the other hand, a quick search for "Obama" turns up 383 matches.

Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression, but you rather come across as an Obama opposer than a Biden supporter.

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

B, Hillary, although just another politician, has been way more upfront about it IMO. I don't like ANYONE who claims the moral high ground when they have no legitimate claim to it in any walk of life. It is a defining thing that will put me off them permanently.

You couldn't be bothered about upfrontness during Hillary's Bosniagate. She got caught up in a blatant lie, and you didn't even comment.

Contrast that with the reaction of quite a number of Obama supporters on this very thread - about a thing as minor as "allowing a woman wearing a hijab to stand behind Obama". Note how many people criticised how his campaign or at least his staffers handled that situation.

All that talk about being upfront - yeah. I get that. He runs his campaign on "hope" and "change", but there are enough moments where he comes across as just another politician.

It's just that it only seems to bother you with Obama. Not with Hillary "35 Years of Experience" Clinton. Not with John "Maverick" McCain.

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Clear enough?

Clear as mud.

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old europe wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I'm tired of constantly repeating myself.

That's news to me.

This post resulted in me laughing out loud.

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I was certain you were too bright to be so easily amused.

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I can't believe I'm doing this, since it's probably abundantly obvious that I agree with what old europe is saying, but...

I think the difference is that BPB feels like Hillary didn't try to put herself on a higher plane. Didn't indicate, by words or deeds, that she's better than BPB. Just scrounged around in the muck and said it was necessary -- rather than that she wouldn't do it.

Where I differ is that I *don't* think that Obama has scrounged around in the muck after saying he wouldn't. I think he's run a smart, pragmatic campaign, and that he's passed up a lot of opportunities for muck-scrounging that most candidates would have taken. He's remained steadfast to some big, campaign-shaping goals -- avoid smearing of opponents, avoid drama, be focused and organized, empower and involve the voters, try to gut the influence of lobbyists/ big-money donors.

I also differ in that I think Obama never really made the grand claims that are ascribed to him -- he isn't perfect, never has been perfect, and hasn't claimed perfection. He's a politician -- a really skilled one. That's a big part of what I've always liked about him. Not just his ideas -- which I also overwhelmingly (but not completely) agree with -- but his ability to play the game. Sure, there's a game. Sure, it needs to be played. If he can play it well WITHOUT going to the more egregious corners that has become standard -- great. And he seems to be succeeding at this quite well so far.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

I was certain you were too bright to be so easily amused.

You were much funnier when you weren't so bitter.

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I'm not bitter... that's a fall back position... frequently employed... never correct.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

I'm not bitter... that's a fall back position... frequently employed... never correct.

Yeah, you're bitter all right.

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Please Answer This Question Obama Supporters

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