Obama's electability

I don't think anyone should be questioning either of the nominees patriotism. They are both good men who believe in this country and what it stands for. They both seem to actually want to change America for the what they consider the better. It's their methods of change that we should be discussing.

Foxfyre wrote:

Here you go FD.....three quotes I found in about 1 minute of looking.

You counted the first one twice....



... just saying.

old europe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Here you go FD.....three quotes I found in about 1 minute of looking.

You counted the first one twice....



... just saying.

Explain. One is from a speech and the other from an ad using some lines from that speech.

McGentrix wrote:

I don't think anyone should be questioning either of the nominees patriotism. They are both good men who believe in this country and what it stands for. They both seem to actually want to change America for the what they consider the better. It's their methods of change that we should be discussing.

I agree UNLESS the change that we might get is based on the perceptions of what changes are needed and how one views his country will have a strong bearing on that.

I vehemently objected to John Kerry's diatribes against an America that he obviously held in contempt.

I object to some policies McCain says he wants to implement and think they are entirely wrong headed, but I do not question his motives as I honestly believe he does love his country and I believe he has sufficient personal integrity to change course if he should perceive that his direction is doing any harm.

I honestly don't know about Obama, but the more I look closely, the more the red flags are there for me. And since he has a better chance to be our next President than does McCain, I would sincerely like somebody to give me a reason to take down those flags.

Well I have listened to a LOT of Obama speeches, interviews, town hall meetings, and read a lot of stuff, and I'm sorry, but my perception is that he has a hard time saying that he loves this country. Perhaps you could refer me to a few sources in which he volunteers that he loves his country and that would change my perception about that particular issue no matter how partisan or biased I might be.

And also intellectual honesty sometimes requires that we acknowledge that perception is sometimes the source of a bias rather than bias always being the cause of perception.

It is a personal bias perhaps that I resent not being able to use a Presidential candidate's full name without being accused of being racist. And I prefer a President who does love his country, sees it as basicly good, and seeks to improve on that. Call me as biased as you want but my bias does make that a personal preference.

The thread title is Obama's Electability. Dismissing negative perceptions out of hand instead of using reasoned arguments to change them will not increase his electability.

I don't think anyone should be questioning either of the nominees patriotism. They are both good men who believe in this country and what it stands for. They both seem to actually want to change America for the what they consider the better. It's their methods of change that we should be discussing.

Hmph, I didn't intend a rant, but there it is.

Foxfyre wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

I don't think anyone should be questioning either of the nominees patriotism. They are both good men who believe in this country and what it stands for. They both seem to actually want to change America for the what they consider the better. It's their methods of change that we should be discussing.

I agree UNLESS the change that we might get is based on the perceptions of what changes are needed and how one views his country will have a strong bearing on that.

I vehemently objected to John Kerry's diatribes against an America that he obviously held in contempt.

I object to some policies McCain says he wants to implement and think they are entirely wrong headed, but I do not question his motives as I honestly believe he does love his country and I believe he has sufficient personal integrity to change course if he should perceive that his direction is doing any harm.

I honestly don't know about Obama, but the more I look closely, the more the red flags are there for me. And since he has a better chance to be our next President than does McCain, I would sincerely like somebody to give me a reason to take down those flags.

I have wanted a McCain Presidency since 1996. I beleive McCain will make an excellent President as he does not take **** from his fellow politicians. He knows when to make a stand and when to cooperate with his opponents.

I saw Obama on the Letterman show back in 2004 and I thought he would be a good President some day. He has the Charisma and leadership qualities that will make people follow him. I don't think now is his time though. He hasn't had enough time on the vine to mellow his liberal propensities and I do not like his platform. The thought of him with what is assured to be a Democratic congress should worry even the most ardent Obamamite. We need to have checks and balance in governemnt. That even includes Republicans.

I still don't think issues of patriotism or religion, or marital strife should be in people's minds in this election cycle. We need a leader that will end the Iraq war with us as the victors, reclaim our world standing from what has become a dismal reaction to war weariness, strengthen our economy by increasing our exports and decreasing our imports, making the dollar strong again, do something about illegal immigration, and keep us safe from further terror attacks.

I do not beleieve Obama is the man to do that for us. His postions on these topics is too opposed to my own whereas McCain is not.

Our society is too socially liberal for topics as gay marriage and abortion to even be an issue. We are a free country and will remain so into the future. But, I am sure some proponent of these cause will continue rattling their chains of oppression and we will see it discussed in the dabates. Just know that somewhere, McGentrix will be rolling his eyes because that debate time could be used for more pressing issues that the entire country faces instead of a tiny minority.

Hmph, I didn't intend a rant, but there it is.

McGentrix wrote:

Hmph, I didn't intend a rant, but there it is.

It was a good rant.

And I cannot see a President who is not 100% pro-American being successful because sooner or later that is bound to creep into the fabric of the decision making and the policies promoted

Here you go FD.....three quotes I found in about 1 minute of looking.

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign - to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.

....

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

Our troops have performed brilliantly in Iraq, but no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war. That's why I have introduced a plan to not only stop the escalation of this war, but begin a phased redeployment that can pressure the Iraqis to finally reach a political settlement and reduce the violence.
-- Barack Obama, January 2007

The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops," Mr. Obama said. "Not in six months or one year - now.
-- Barack Obama, September 2007

Sen. John McCain defended President Bush's Iraq plan on Friday as a difficult but necessary move, parting company with lawmakers questioning the wisdom of the military build up.
"I believe that together these moves will give the Iraqis and Americans the best chance of success," said McCain, R-Ariz., a leading presidential contender for 2008.
--CBS News, January 2007

"I am not guaranteeing that this [U.S.troop build-up] succeeds. I am just saying that I think it can. I believe it has a good shot."
The most optimistic scenario he envisioned involved a steady reduction in violence and a gradual turnover of security responsibilities to the Iraqis during the remainder of the Bush administration. Under those circumstances, Mr. McCain said, the United States military would gradually withdraw to its bases in Iraq, though he did not provide a timetable for how long that might take.
-- The New York Times, April 2007

Nope. That's a small part of it Parados, a very small part, and by itself probably doesn't mean a whole lot. But is is a part, and coupled with other factors that I have also mentioned, it is a concern for some including me.

Foxfyre wrote:

Here you go FD.....three quotes I found in about 1 minute of looking.

I'm afraid it takes a bit longer with Obama because I have to wade through all of the right-wing "does Obama love America" results to find what I'm looking for. I think the conversation has moved beyond this now, but you issued a challenge so I'm answering.

This one was already posted by O'Bill, but I'll post a little more context.

Obama's race speech wrote:

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign - to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.

....

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7352224.stm
(Can't watch the video here at work, but the BBC quotes him 'I love this country')

Obama at Montana dinner wrote:

Now rather than continue this game of dueling patriotism quotations, I refer you to McG's posts.

Iraq War:

Obama -

Quote:

Our troops have performed brilliantly in Iraq, but no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war. That's why I have introduced a plan to not only stop the escalation of this war, but begin a phased redeployment that can pressure the Iraqis to finally reach a political settlement and reduce the violence.
-- Barack Obama, January 2007

Quote:

The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops," Mr. Obama said. "Not in six months or one year - now.
-- Barack Obama, September 2007

McCain

Quote:

Sen. John McCain defended President Bush's Iraq plan on Friday as a difficult but necessary move, parting company with lawmakers questioning the wisdom of the military build up.
"I believe that together these moves will give the Iraqis and Americans the best chance of success," said McCain, R-Ariz., a leading presidential contender for 2008.
--CBS News, January 2007

Quote:

"I am not guaranteeing that this [U.S.troop build-up] succeeds. I am just saying that I think it can. I believe it has a good shot."
The most optimistic scenario he envisioned involved a steady reduction in violence and a gradual turnover of security responsibilities to the Iraqis during the remainder of the Bush administration. Under those circumstances, Mr. McCain said, the United States military would gradually withdraw to its bases in Iraq, though he did not provide a timetable for how long that might take.
-- The New York Times, April 2007

Who is the better candidate going forward? In this case McCain. He sees the realistic results in Iraq. He knows what we need to do there whereas Obama is kowtowing to liberal pressure to run from Iraq. It doesn't matter what the facts on the ground are showing or that results are getting acheived.

Will Obama make good on his promises of rapid troop redeployment away from Iraq? I don't see how he could in good conscience ever do such a thing. Just like the 2006 Dem congress, who also promised to get the troops out of Iraq and failed to deliver. Now is not the time for a President like Obama.

He'd make a great Sec of State though.

I won't give you the You Tube clip as 'voluntary' as this was him in an interview answering a direct question re his feelings about flag and country and that doesn't count in this context. But I'll give you two out of the three. Good job.