A quick story about racism.

bookmark

It is entirely possible that my wife likes the attention, and that one of the three office guys enjoys giving her attention, what business is it of the three yard workers? Their rights have not been impacted, except for the argument that they have a right to work in a desexualized workplace, an argument that I do not buy.

If my wife has a problem with other peoples conduct then she should try to deal with it with the actual perps. If that does not work then she should bring her boss into it. The yard workers should mind their own business.

You will see in multiple threads in multiple ways that I am categorically apposed to treating adults as children, to takeing them out of responsibility for their conduct and their well being. Humans tend to raise and fall to the expectations of those around them, and we need to have individuals at the top of their game. We are as a collective a collection of individuals, a strong collective needs strong individuals. People are made strong by way of being challenged, and being motivated towards vigilance because bad things can happen if they are not. I am appalled at the nanny state, this idea that we should try to protect people from all harm, even harm that they would cause themselves. I am horrified that we have decided that if a person does not stick up for themselves and they get hurt then everyone else is responsible, it is nuts that bystanders have more culpability than the person being harmed. We have a duty to come to the aid and comfort of those who are being hurt, if they so desire, we don't have a duty to protect them. They are not children and should not be treated as such.

I understand your POV and I used a poor example...much better if I didn't drag your family into it.

If I can put it another way...these government and company regulations are about not abandoning the powerless, in fact much of liberal thinking is rooted in this. Now you think it's bad, but then you're probably a self-assured young man that could easily leave his job and find another.
But there are many who are powerless to object, go up the line of command, quit, stop supporting a family if they are victimized by bullies in a workplace...

I know...it seems a stretch from what happened at Di's job but it starts with crude remarks and it can grow into full scale bullying.
You and I will probably always disagree about freedom and government interference but I can assure you, I see where you're coming from.

we probably would agree, as I am not an anarchist, I am a socialist for cripes sake. As with most things there must be balance between individual rights and responsibilities to oneself, and the collectives right to look out for weak individuals and the best interests of the collective. My argument is that we have gone off of the rails, we have gone too far in one direction (by treating everyone as if they are weak *children*) and have hurt both individuals as well as the collective by doing so.

I'm sure that the time passed with your actions proved reasonable and correct.
It IS amazing, isn't it? What a bunch of maroons.
I love the post where the guy claims to have been a principal at an inner city school, but no names or dates are offered. An odd resume entry but just as fake as the rest of his, I imagine.


I've seen this sentence construction before, I don't remember it being related to any "ideas". I think the name has changed but the mindset is just as concrete as way back then. HEH. We had some kind of cruel nickname for the doof, ohmigod, what was it? Furdleturd or something like that.


Joe(still open -twenty four hours a day.)Nation

possum R FartBubble

OOOOH !

Thank you, dys!!

I hope you and your lovely will come visit me again someday.


Joe(I wracked my poor little brain trying to remember....)Nation

This is true, but let us be cognizant that the pendulum of democracy
swings both ways, as the last election has proven.

It might be that elections of the future will elevate to power
political ideologies of exactly THE OPPOSITE point of vu.

In that event, it will be neither more nor less proper than it IS now
for government to propagate and enforce (in the workplace or anywhere)
its own point of vu of good taste in people 's opinions
or in their freedom to express their opinions.

This is supposed to be a free country.





David

Joe Nation wrote:

I did not see that post, so I don 't know what he said, pro nor con;
I have no idea of whether it was fake or not,
but it is inconsistent with the fundamental nature
of this forum, for any denizen hereof to be asked to post
such specific information, because this is supposed to be
an anonymous forum, so if u challenge him on that basis,
it is hitting him below the belt. That 's almost like demanding that he tell u his name.

Everyone here knows that Joe is not the dim bulb that he is passing himself off as. That post of his was a personal slander drive by while refusing to take up the subject being discussed. He refuses to show those who disagree with him even a modicum of respect, which includes refusing to take opposition arguments seriously, which is normal for him.

Well, Hawkeye, I disagree profoundly. If you have any knowledge of these threads going back in years, you may know that originally when I posted I was most polite and deferent. Some bastards like Joe the Jag, having been drubbed by me in a debate, saw fit to make fun of my name and post ridiculous and insulting pictures.

I will be polite to anyone who does not slap me in the face first. Please do not jump to conclusions unless you know all of the facts.

I TAKE ANY OPPOSITION ARGUMENTS SERIOUSLY UNLESS THE PERSON WHO MAKES THOSE ARGUMENTS WILL NOT RESPOND TO MY IDEAS.

What do you think of this, Hawkeye? I can find many similar attempts at ridicule.


quote

possum R FartBubble

end of quote

Joe Nation wrote:

I'm sure that the time passed with your actions proved reasonable and correct.
It IS amazing, isn't it? What a bunch of maroons.
I love the post where the guy claims to have been a principal at an inner city school, but no names or dates are offered. An odd resume entry but just as fake as the rest of his, I imagine.

*****************************************************************

I'll trade you, Joe Nation. I am no longer a Principal but I know nothing about you. Do you really think that I would give you my resume without you giving yours?

I know fifteen times more about Education than you will ever learn.

Was I a teacher and principal. Yes, I was. And I can demonstrate my knowledge of my city and my profession and my knowledge in Education.

What do you have to show?

Does Jag mean Judge Advocate General ?

Diest TKO wrote:

I didn't tell the other team lead how to manage his team. I only told him what happened and how it effected my team.

As a person who taught on the elementary school level and high school level and as a adjuct lecturer at a local University in the department of Education, I MUST point out a fact which leads me to believe that although Diest TKO is a holy man who is far above all the rest of us morally, he is stupid.

My estimate of his stupidity comes from the fact that he does not know how to spell affected. It is not "how it Effected my team" It is how it Affected my team.

It is not a typo since E is in the upper row and A is in the second row.

Joe Nation wrote:

It is quite clear that the writers on one side of this discussion haven't ever had to lead a workplace team.
**********************************

It is clear? You don't know very much about people do you, Joe Nation.


I taught in an inner city school for four years in my twenties. Five years after that I was appointed as a principal in a school which was changing from white to black demographically. I had a faculty of 43 teachers. The teachers were white, black and ethnically Hispanic.

I LED those workplace teams many manytimes. The school and my teachers and I were honored several times for the level of achievement reached by the students despite the fact that so many of them came from homes below the poverty level.

Joe Nation is just ignorant about the fact that you cannot get into people's heads. You can try to educate them but it is difficult.

Joe Nation does not know that in spite of many WORKPLACE TEAM meetings to enhance sensitivity training, some teachers, both white, black and Latino, who decided to talk to me privately held what Setanta and Diest TKO would excoriate.

A Black teaches came to me and said, If that woman( a noisy black lady who used the most filthy language when visiting a teacher) I am going to insist that you call the police-_I don't care what the PTA will think.

Some white teachers opined privately---You are the principal but I can only give my opinion. I have seen what happens when a school becomes all black. If you can, try to take in a program which will give us more white or Latino students.

Joe Nation. Diest TKO and/.or Setanta could never ever handle a situtation like this. There was animosity between some teachers that could never be solved based NOT on race but rather on how some of them viewed each other's professionalism and teaching ability.

Because some of the black teachers did not have a great amount of training, their spelling was abysmal. I had in my files several notes sent to me by parents which said, in effect--How can this person teach my child, she can't even spell.

Joe Nation never handled anything like that and never could.

Yet, the best teacher I had was one who worked in Reagan headquarters before he was elected. She was a black conservative who was popular with most of the faculty but dismissed by the black far left wing teachers.

Could you handle that, Joe Nation??

PS, Nation-- You know, of course, that millions and millions of dollars have been given to inner city schools since the Great Society began under Johnson.
Some of it was for "sensitivity' training/Most was to raise the abysmally low reading and math scores.

Neither has worked.

I guess the solution for the problem is to get the selfless people--those who are pure of heart like Diest TKO and Setanta to run these schools.

They wouldn't last two weeks!!!!!! They would soon find out that the students and the few well intentioned parents don't care if you say--I am not a racist--They want results. They want good reading and math scores.

To what do you disagree? I was speaking about how Joe Nation did a drive-by and refused to take up the discussion. His history of doing this sort of **** is obvious to me , and I have only been around 17 months or so. That is enough time to see how this charactor operates.

Hawkeye 10 wrote:


Team leaders have a responsibility to the institution that they work for, to their bosses, and to the team. Policing team member conversation is problematic at best, and can easily become a detriment to at least one of the three entities that have invested into the team leader.
*********************************************************************

If I discovered that one of my teachers had used a racial slur to another teacher, it would have been my responsiblity, in order to keep the organization running as smoothly as possible to take action.

However, as Hawkeye states, any action which does not take ALL factors into account, is bound to fail. I knew, of course, that many of my older teachers resented most of the newer teachers who happened to be minorities. But, it was crystal clear that those new teachers, those minority teachers were not only accepted but hailed by the older group when the older group discovered that their professionalism and knowledge was similar to theirs.

Anyone who claims he or she has run a group who does not know this is not telling the truth. There is A CULTURE established in a work place--especially a SCHOOL.

The older teachers did not embrace those who made it clear that their basic philosophy was the enlargement of black power. This, of course, was threatening to the older group. When black teachers showed that they were in concert with most of the values of the older group, they were welcomed.

genoves wrote:


What happens ?

Does Jag = Judge Advocate General ?

I missed this last night...when everyone starts nesting quotes the posts seem to blur together.

Anyway....Respect...that is the key, and in my opinion you did the right thing by speaking up....I do not cuss when I'm working on a church, or working for or around religious folk....even though I poke fun of religion at every given chance...I just don't do it....simply out of respect.

Just because we have the right to say what we wish, does not mean that we should....and I will say no more.