Obama Exposed As Black

Also, trying to contain speech is a bad idea. You need to solve the underlying problem, and that is behavioral.

Maybe we should make it even and put Hillary on a T-shirt with a Saltine.

maporsche wrote:

Nimh, I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard. I'm becoming more and more confused about what I can and cannot say (not "me", but people in general).

Allright but what is specifically confusing about this case? Comparing blacks with monkeys = not OK. In the light of recent history, it's outrageous - as that guy in Georgia sure as hell knew. Instead of drawing the whole discussion about PC in general into this, cant we just call out actual, explicit racial insults for what they are when one of those comes up? I mean, this is not a particularly ambiguous case, is it?

If it's not ambiguous, what was the point of posting it in the first place?

To give everyone an opportunity to express the offense you believe all decent people should feel about this incident?

To bait a trap for someone like Maporche so that everyone who has expressed their offense can also chastise, insult, and feel superior to him?

My Christian upbringing, while it didn't stick theologically, does stick with me on the topic of Redemption. The core message of Christianity is that all people are redeemable, and I believe that 100%. Christian texts are filled with parables of extreme examples that make being called names seem awfully mild by comparison, yet the message remains (new testament, anyway) that the perpetrator of wrong is not Evil, simply incorrect.

Incorrect can be corrected.

The example that always comes back to me is a documentary on a community along the Mississippi river.

Film exists from the Sixties of the cliche fat, white, belligerent, epithet-slinging sherrif of the town swaggering and bragging about his cancellation of the ferry that connected the poor black side of the community to the (relatively) rick white side. The side with all the jobs,
food, schools... The impact on the lives of the individuals on the other side of the river was a litany of human suffering.

The producers of the documentary went back to this community and found that former sherrif, now an elderly man. An elderly man who openly weeps on camera at the incredible foolishness of his younger self. Who had spent some period (seem to recall 20 years) of time trying to redress the error of his ways, and who had come to be seen by members of both halves of the divided community as a hero.

The lesson of this one example is something that hopefully most of us can map to at least one person in our lives.

People are not "racists" or "sexists" - at least not in the same way as they are "people". They will always be Persons, but they may not always be "Racists".

For my part, I have been on a personal pilgrimage to not use Nouns to describe humans in any way that boxes them into arbitrary negative groups.

It's hard to quit.

And it's hard to say these things in just a few mere words. But we need to work on it. Jesus, Ghandi, King - none of these philosophical role models would have it any other way.

Oh, yes, yes, yes! I wholeheartedly agree with redemption as a real and true thing. Everyone has a chance to change in their hearts.

But in reality, it is the results of some of their previous actions that are not so easily undone. My momma, the southern belle, said it this way "you can't unscramble a scrambled egg."

My daddy, the police detective said it more directly. "Once it's phucked, you can't unphuck it."

So, I guess my point is, it is harder in the short run, but much, MUCH better (and easier) in the long run, to nip racist and bigoted comments and actions in the bud. Call it like it is, as soon as you can.

Again, of course, I know that this is much easier said than done. A person, like the sheriff you mentioned, can be redeemed as a hero. But it also takes forgiveness on the part of the wronged. As with life in general, it's just not always that easy.

An example that comes to mind is in the person of one Robert Moses. A powerful man, he was the city planner for New York City and presided over major expansions of the cityscape for 30+ years in mid 20th century. He was also a virulent racist. His responsibilities included the Parks and Recreation department.

He had highway overpasses built low so that public transit buses couldn't transport people to public beaches. He upgraded Central Park and built playgrounds all over the city with one notable exception. No playgrounds were built in Harlem during his tenure.

Now I truly believe that in his heart, he could have very well asked for forgiveness. Redemption is open to all.

But the question is where do you start correcting? And who pays the price? Do you tear up all the overpasses and build them higher? Do you use imminent domain to take people's homes and build playgrounds?

Do you ask children to forgive a long dead man for not thinking enough of their innocent humanity to build a friggin' playground? So yes, of course, I believe in redemption. But I also believe that to be truly free, you have to be courageous. Self sacrificing even.

Someone could have said, 'Sir, there should be playgrounds built in Harlem. And just because someone doesn't have access to a car is no reason to put a barrier in the way of them enjoying a brief respite from the hustle and bustle of the city" Whoever said that probably would have lost their job. But, to me, they are just as guilty of racism and bigotry as the bastard who didn't have playgrounds built in a black neighborhood.

Google Robert Moses. You will see that he is described as a visionary, a "master builder." Usually, there is no mention that he hated black people. Forgiveness is hard work. Especially when visible, tangible evidence of racist, discriminatory policies are evident in daily life. My daddy had another earthy saying that comes to mind. "Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining."

So, yes. I do believe in redemption. But please understand that there is a whole lot redeemin' to be done. Time's awastin'

Is West Virginia Welcome in Your Democratic Party?
by dawnt
Mon May 12, 2008 at 08:42:37 AM PDT

Some Excerpts:

It will take more than hope for West Virginia. It will take hard work and understanding. It will take city liberals getting off of their high horses and coming down to our level -- the level of ordinary folk who are ignorant, misinformed, maybe even, shall we say the word, bigoted. That's right I said our level. I'm an agnostic Democrat who votes on economic and social justice issues, but I'm still more like them than I am like you.

Over the last week or so, I've heard a lot of kossacks writing off West Virginia, making fun of West Virginia, and even saying West Virginia doesn't matter. Some have painted all of Appalachia as racist homophobes who will never change. Some even said that Obama is in mortal danger there. Some have suggested that we revert to Clinton-style "states that matter" campaigning, leaving West Virginia and Kentucky behind altogether.

Well, progress hasn't left us behind, and I hope that progressives won't either. If you think progress is impossible in my neck of the woods, follow me after the jump...

First, I'll clarify that I'm not from West Virginia. I grew up in the hills of Tennessee, and much of my family lives throughout the mountains of Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Ohio. I've spent a lot of time in those mountains with my family, and the culture of the small town where I grew up is much like those places.

If you want hillbilly, Song of the South, backwoods redneck credentials. I've got them.

I grew up in a county with a 20% illiteracy rate. When I graduated high school, my hometown high school was graduating kids at a 5th grade level. My great-grandfather died in what I'm told was the worst mining accident in the history of the country -- my grandmother claims 500+ men died that day. My father believes only Christians should be elected to any office. I have a (crazy) aunt who once told me that letting gay people get married is no different than letting people marry animals. My hometown didn't start having proms until the early 80s because dancing is a sin. When I started voting, my issues were guns and abortion. Now I vote for more important things, like economic and social justice, but I will still stand with my people when you people look down your noses at them.

I know that we cannot win West Virginia on Tuesday. We cannot win Kentucky next week. We cannot win Appalachia in November. But that does not mean we should give up on them or work less hard for them. It does not make the 50 state strategy less important -- it makes the 50 state strategy more important. It means we should work even harder. Call it bridging the ignorance gap, if you will.

First, let's talk about ignorance.

I've seen a lot of frustration expressed lately about what many kossacks consider to be willfully ignorant people. Some of you believe that information is as readily available to everyone as it is to you. Some of you believe that the cost of accessing available information is the same for everyone as it is for you. I've even seen comments from people exclaiming, "But golly gee, everyone has access to the Intertoobs!" I guess some of you have never heard of the digital divide.

Not everyone has access to the Internet. There is a huge gap between the have and have-nots when it comes to Internet access, and the divide is down economic lines. I hate to point out the obvious, but Appalachia ain't exactly well-to-do.

Among those who have access to the Internet, there is also a skills divide. In order to use the Internet effectively, you must have not just a minimum level of technical competency but also a minimum level of information competency.

A person can learn to use a web browser and an email client and still not have the information competencies needed to obtain and process information from reliable sources on the Internet. This is why substantial numbers of people get most of their online political information from the chain emails that the rest of us filter into the Trash folder. It's easy to gain enough technical competence to send, receive, and even forward emails, but it's harder to learn how to distinguish between good and bad sources of information. If you don't believe that, just ask anyone who's ever taught a class that requires students to write research papers.

These are not willfully ignorant people. These are hardworking Americans who are doing the best they can with the hand they were dealt. These are people who are proud to put a union bumper sticker on their car. They hear the word solidarity, and they think brotherhood, not commie bastard. These people bled for progress. If they are ignorant now, it's because we left them behind. If we believe in the 50 state strategy, then it's time for us to stop leaving these people behind.

Let's talk about race.

One of my high school friends dated a black guy throughout high school. She was so afraid of what would happen if people found out that she kept it a secret for years. A couple of years after we graduated, a mixed race couple married. It was a little shocking to the people there, but almost no one objected. The attitude of many was, "Well, I wouldn't do it, but so be it." It sounds bigoted, but it was progress. The next year, my friend married the love of her life. Her two children are in junior high now, and they are part of the popular crowd.

I still remember the first time I saw an Asian person. It was in an airport in California (I am too embarrassed to tell you how old I was). I pointed and said out loud, "Wow! They look just like they do in the movies!" Yeah, I said that. Out loud. When I was 17, I spent a summer working at Disneyland, and that was my first real exposure to people of other cultures and races. It was quite an experience. Changed my life forever (and definitely for the better). And those influences on my life also influenced my friends and family.

Let's talk about broad brushes.

I want to talk about stereotypes because so far in this diary, I've talked about the ignorant because that's the stereotype that many kossacks have of Appalachians. But West Virginia and other places like it are not as monolithic as many believe. Sure, they are more skewed to the conservative, but you will find a wide range of people.

You will find people like my best friend's little sister who has fought for LGBT issues in my little Christian town. You will find people like me who are agnostic, somewhat progressive, and educated. You will find people in mixed race marriages, and you will find mixed race children.

Just because we put gunracks in our pickup trucks doesn't mean we're violent. It doesn't mean we get drunk and shoot each other (though, a lot of folk get drunk and screw). When you live 20-30 minutes (or more) from the nearest police station, you need a gun. If someone wants to do you harm, you cannot wait half an hour or more for Barney Fife to arrive. That's why we don't want our guns taken away.

The issue is also not as simple as race. My people are suspicious of anyone who's not from around our parts. It's more about outsiders. You're a lot more likely to be disliked if you're from New York City or San Francisco (sorry folks) than if you're black. These are people that weren't just left behind, they were beaten down and then left behind by the man.

Now, let's make progress happen.

You don't need to share their religion to make a difference with them. They are looking for people who talk to them as equals, with respect, that's all. They often feel that the rest of the country and the political players are looking down their noses at them. That's one of the reasons that they vote for god and guns -- they feel that's the only common ground they've got with the people running this country.

They're proud of their blue-collar jobs and their unions. They don't like yankees and college kids talking down to them. But they love anyone who treats them as equals. They look out for their neighbors, and they love their country, and they believe that the flag does not stand for the government, it stands for the common folk who stand up to government and the freedom we have to do just that. These people are the heart of America, they are populists who have bled for our country, for our unions, for our Constitutional rights. They are tough, rugged people that you want on your side in a fight.

Appalachia may have been insulated from development, but it is not 1950 Tupelo. When you talk about unifying the country, don't leave my people behind. If you do, you leave behind an important part of America. Progress will not be made overnight in these areas, but more progress has already been made than they are given credit for, and even more progress will be made if we help it along.

You don't have to understand the ignorance. You don't have to be one of us. You don't even have to be anything like us. Just stand with us to change it. Facing the last vestiges of racism and homophobia and the worst illiteracy and poverty and all that we hoped was in the America's past may be hard for urban progressives, but those of us who call rural America home will stand with you, if you will only stand with us.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If it's not ambiguous, what was the point of posting it in the first place?

To give everyone an opportunity to express the offense you believe all decent people should feel about this incident?

To bait a trap for someone like Maporche so that everyone who has expressed their offense can also chastise, insult, and feel superior to him?

What about: to show what's going on out there? To report on what's awaiting us this race? To sound off a warning of sorts?

To believe some posters, racism isn't much of a problem anymore in US politics. I think they are overlooking the real and often still very crude racism out there. As for us Dems, we too better keep an eye out for signs of what's coming. This would be one.

But...

Muslim isn't a race, is it?!???

I think you know what I mean, woiyo.

nimh wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If it's not ambiguous, what was the point of posting it in the first place?

To give everyone an opportunity to express the offense you believe all decent people should feel about this incident?

To bait a trap for someone like Maporche so that everyone who has expressed their offense can also chastise, insult, and feel superior to him?

What about: to show what's going on out there? To report on what's awaiting us this race? To sound off a warning of sorts?

To believe some posters, racism isn't much of a problem anymore in US politics. I think they are overlooking the real and often still very crude racism out there. As for us Dems, we too better keep an eye out for signs of what's coming. This would be one.

Nimh, Herald of The Democrats!

A georgia redneck sells racist t-shirts in his roadhouse and that's a signal of what is awaiting you in this race? It calls for a warning?


(I didn't know you considered yourself a Democrat. Odd for a foreigner)

snood wrote:

I think you know what I mean, woiyo.

I know. I just find the word "race" being used in the wrong context everyday and it sickens me.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

nimh wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If it's not ambiguous, what was the point of posting it in the first place?

To give everyone an opportunity to express the offense you believe all decent people should feel about this incident?

To bait a trap for someone like Maporche so that everyone who has expressed their offense can also chastise, insult, and feel superior to him?

What about: to show what's going on out there? To report on what's awaiting us this race? To sound off a warning of sorts?

To believe some posters, racism isn't much of a problem anymore in US politics. I think they are overlooking the real and often still very crude racism out there. As for us Dems, we too better keep an eye out for signs of what's coming. This would be one.

Nimh, Herald of The Democrats!

A georgia redneck sells racist t-shirts in his roadhouse and that's a signal of what is awaiting you in this race? It calls for a warning?


(I didn't know you considered yourself a Democrat. Odd for a foreigner)

In other words, you have no response to what he actually said except to "chastise, insult, and feel superior to him."