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Obama Exposed As Black

 
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 05:18 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I suppose that, like you, I could have made a crudely obscene reply that even the most cloddish among us could understand


Well, aren't you just the belle of the elitist ball.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 05:24 pm
woiyo wrote:
snood wrote:
I think you know what I mean, woiyo.


I know. I just find the word "race" being used in the wrong context everyday and it sickens me.
this should be interesting, woiyo, just what would be correct context for the term "race"?
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nimh
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 06:53 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
(I didn't know you considered yourself a Democrat. Odd for a foreigner)

It's a surprise that I identify with the Democrats in this race? Really?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 08:51 pm
I vote for making the society color blind. From now on, direct the Census Bureau to quit counting people by race, creed, etc. Simply count the legal citizens of the country, by state, county, and city, and furthermore, quit prying into my personal business. People are upset about wiretaps finding out about terrorists communications via phone conversations, but somehow the Census Bureau asking me about every detail of my life, where I work, how much I make, what kind of a house I live in, down to virtually how many times I go to the bathroom every day, it is getting ridiculous, and I think enough is enough. Where is my right to privacy that liberals think is in the constitution?

And pollsters, quit classifying voters by race, creed, age, job, education, blah blah blah. I am a citizen registered to vote, that should be enough. And I am an American, no more this black, red, brown, white, green American, or whatever.

Do we really believe in overcoming racism? Then quit obsessing over it is my suggestion.
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snood
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 08:15 am
Classic. Ignore it, and it'll go away.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 10:57 am
snood wrote:
Classic. Ignore it, and it'll go away.


I don't see as how constantly making distinctions based on skin color is a better approach.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 11:18 am
nimh wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
(I didn't know you considered yourself a Democrat. Odd for a foreigner)

It's a surprise that I identify with the Democrats in this race? Really?


No, but it is surprising that you would refer to yourself as a member of the Democrat Party of the US.

Including yourself in "us Dems" as respects the American political contest yet to come just seems to be a surprising expression of affinity by someone who is not American.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 03:59 pm
<shrugs>
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 04:01 pm
Quote:
The Myth Of The Black Racist Voter
By Ta-Nehisi Coates - May 12, 2008

One very foolish meme that's made it's way into the primary is this notion that black people voting for Barack in large margins is the equivalent (or on the scale of racism, arguably worse) of white people breaking for Hillary in similar margins. [..] I just want to venture a quick response.

Blacks have been voting for whites for president since they've gotten the vote. There is no question about black people's ability to vote for a white man for president. Even in cases when blacks have a so-called black leader in the actual race, they still--in crucial times--have voted for the white guy. This is why it was patently foolish to infer that Latinos voting for Hillary were racist, when in fact Latinos had supported black candidates on several occasions.

Whites enjoy no such record. Whereas we have several anecdotal reports of folks categorically voting against Obama because he's black, I've yet to hear a black voter say she couldn't vote for Hillary--under any circumstance--because she's white. Part of that is function of numbers--there have been way more white candidates than black. But white Democrats rarely have to worry about being able to attract the black vote when running for national or state-wide office, it's black Dems who have to worry about the white vote. The lone exceptions are in mayoral races in big cities where whites are a minority. [N]ationally, white Democrats haven't worried about the black vote in probably half a century.

Furthermore, the black support of Obama hasn't been knee-jerk. Whereas Obama would likely never have competed for the white vote in West Virginia, Hillary actually was competing for the black vote in several states. This Time story, beginning with the phrase "There is no doubt Barack Obama can appeal to white audiences," (Oh how things--or media narratives--quickly change), goes on to note the reverence black women hold for Hillary Clinton, and shows Clinton's support among blacks as nearly DOUBLE Barack Obama's. [..]
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 04:18 pm
Nimh, you article talks about how black voters have voted for white candidates in the past.


What about all of the NEWLY registered black voters that Obama has been praised for attracting. THEY haven't voted for previous white candidates, have they?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 05:10 pm
maporsche wrote:
It must be a generational thing.

Under 30 here, and if it's ok for a white guy to be a chimp, equal opportunity says it's ok for a black guy to be called a chimp.
Shocked There is no way you're really this stupid. What purpose is served by pretending you are?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 08:36 pm
snood wrote:
Classic. Ignore it, and it'll go away.

Well, I thought race isn't supposed to matter, that we should get over it, and become a more color blind society? If the score doesn't matter, why keep score anymore?

It seems to me that our identity should be tied to character, accomplishment, and other personal traits, rather than color of skin. I don't get the importance. And Obama is a mixture of many races, so why do we have to consider him black? Or do we? Personally, I think he is just another ultra- liberal Democrat politician, but trying to capitalize on race, which is a turnoff in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2008 10:27 pm
Tell me something he has said or done that would make you think he himself is "trying to capitalize" on race.
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kickycan
 
  1  
Sun 18 May, 2008 12:55 am
It must be all those times he's said that race won't be an issue in his campaign. Diabolical.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Sun 18 May, 2008 01:24 am
kickycan wrote:
It must be all those times he's said that race won't be an issue in his campaign. Diabolical.



Clearly the devil.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sun 18 May, 2008 09:23 pm
snood wrote:
Tell me something he has said or done that would make you think he himself is "trying to capitalize" on race.

Well, I have read his book, and there is an entire chapter devoted to race. He has fully recognized the importance of pandering to groups, as most Democrats do, one important one being the black community. He spent alot of time building a base of support in Chicago to launch his political career from, and it is my opinion that is one reason he landed in company with the likes of a man that is clearly a racist in my opinion, Jeremiah Wright. He also makes it clear in his book, and I have heard the same in debates and speeches, that since he is of mixed heritage, he is therefore more qualified to represent black people as well as white people. He makes the same assertion in regard to other nations that may be Islamic for example. He claims he understands that culture and can bridge the gaps of misunderstanding.

You may argue that his argument has merit, but he is clearly emphasizing the importance of skin color and so on, and trying to say that he is more qualified because of the color of his ancestors' skin. He is trying to capitalize on it.

I am suggesting that constantly identifying people by outward characteristics is not a profitable endeavor if we don't want to be judged by our outward characteristics. I think we should be alot better off to try to forget them, quit classifying ourselves according to them, and instead begin to think of ourselves in terms of our character and other more pertinent definitions, as individuals instead of a member of a group according to how we look or where our ancestors came from 2 or 3 hundred years ago.

So I answered your question as to why I think what I said. And I am certainly not alone, even the Clintons have adamantly claimed, at least Bill, that Obama has played the race card. I seldom believe Clinton, but in this case, perhaps he had a point. The Clintons played the race card alot to get where they are, so they should know.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 18 May, 2008 10:15 pm
okie wrote:
snood wrote:
Tell me something he has said or done that would make you think he himself is "trying to capitalize" on race.

Well, I have read his book, and there is an entire chapter devoted to race. He has fully recognized the importance of pandering to groups, as most Democrats do, one important one being the black community. He spent alot of time building a base of support in Chicago to launch his political career from, and it is my opinion that is one reason he landed in company with the likes of a man that is clearly a racist in my opinion, Jeremiah Wright. He also makes it clear in his book, and I have heard the same in debates and speeches, that since he is of mixed heritage, he is therefore more qualified to represent black people as well as white people. He makes the same assertion in regard to other nations that may be Islamic for example. He claims he understands that culture and can bridge the gaps of misunderstanding.

You may argue that his argument has merit, but he is clearly emphasizing the importance of skin color and so on, and trying to say that he is more qualified because of the color of his ancestors' skin. He is trying to capitalize on it.

I am suggesting that constantly identifying people by outward characteristics is not a profitable endeavor if we don't want to be judged by our outward characteristics. I think we should be alot better off to try to forget them, quit classifying ourselves according to them, and instead begin to think of ourselves in terms of our character and other more pertinent definitions, as individuals instead of a member of a group according to how we look or where our ancestors came from 2 or 3 hundred years ago.

So I answered your question as to why I think what I said. And I am certainly not alone, even the Clintons have adamantly claimed, at least Bill, that Obama has played the race card. I seldom believe Clinton, but in this case, perhaps he had a point. The Clintons played the race card alot to get where they are, so they should know.


I suppose that one could make the argument that by offering himself as the racially transcendent candidate he is, in effect, capitalizing on the issue of race, but I think that would be unfair.

Obama, although born of a white mother and a black father, is considered by virtually everyone in America, including himself, as black. Why this is the case can be the subject of another thread, but it, undeniably, is.

Arguably he could lay claim to being "white" with as much logic as supports his claim to being "black," but then he would almost certainly engender criticism for denying his black heritage

If he never discussed his race he would still be considered black, by both his supporters and his detractors.

Most of his supporters want him to be black as do some of his detractors for related, but opposite reasons.

Many of his supporters want to vote for a black person for president. I don't think this is the main reason most of them will vote for him, but it's a nice side benefit for them. You vote for someone with whom you agree and whom you admire and you also get to vote for a black man and prove you are not a racist. Interestingly enough, I think he would lose support from some of these voters if he laid claim to being white, not because they don't want to vote for a white person or only want to vote for a black person but because, as I've already indicated, I believe his laying claim to being white would somehow be seen as running away from his black heritage. There is something sad about this, and since Obama is almost forced to identify himself as black by a world that seems instinctively compelled to label individuals (with skin color being a primary label), I think its unfair to accuse him of "playing a race card."

I really can't think of examples where he has tried to accuse his opponents or critics of being racist and never as a smoke screen to escape accountability for an error or misstatement. This is what I would call using the race card, not pointing out that his mixed heritage make him uniquely qualified to lead both whites and blacks.

You're right though that he is not race neutral, but then I don't know how he could be.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Mon 19 May, 2008 02:40 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Many of his supporters want to vote for a black person for president. I don't think this is the main reason most of them will vote for him, but it's a nice side benefit for them. You vote for someone with whom you agree and whom you admire and you also get to vote for a black man and prove you are not a racist. Interestingly enough, I think he would lose support from some of these voters if he laid claim to being white, not because they don't want to vote for a white person or only want to vote for a black person but because, as I've already indicated, I believe his laying claim to being white would somehow be seen as running away from his black heritage. There is something sad about this, and since Obama is almost forced to identify himself as black by a world that seems instinctively compelled to label individuals (with skin color being a primary label), I think its unfair to accuse him of "playing a race card."

Excellent summation of what is going on here, in terms of the dynamics of his support. Maybe it is somewhat unfair for my accusation, however I would tend more to agree with you if he had not gone to great lengths to pander to and associate with people and ideas at the Jeremiah Wright end of the spectrum.

Interestingly, Obama seems to want to do the same thing with all kinds of issues. Take the terrorist problem, rather than totally repudiating that end of the spectrum, there seems to be a projection of the idea that he wants to entertain their greviences, talk to them, understand them, and thus bring everyone to some kind of common ground.

I guess his approach just rubs me the wrong way. I prefer someone that will take a stand on something, and oppose viewpoints that are wrong rather than entertaining them and using them. And that includes the race card.

One example, does anyone know what Obama's stance is on the very fringe idea, an idea that is very racially charged, reparations for slave descendents? As he does on multiple issues, he dodges giving a straight answer, which I think is playing the race card big time.

Such is typical of Obama, it is tough to pin the guy down to anything. This is his political strategy, and so far it seems to be working fairly well. Be all things to all people, and if one thing is the race card, he will use it. Why not, as you say it is pretty much thrown in his lap, but he makes not much effort to distance himself from it either if it gets him votes.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Mon 19 May, 2008 02:58 am
Quote:
One example, does anyone know what Obama's stance is on the very fringe idea, an idea that is very racially charged, reparations for slave descendents? As he does on multiple issues, he dodges giving a straight answer, which I think is playing the race card big time.


It is utter bullshyt to try to characterize Obama as someone who dodges issues. When have you ever heard him asked about slave reparations, "for example"?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 19 May, 2008 06:01 am
Okie, for once I will defer to Finn when it comes to your claim that Obama "has played the race card". I think you're wrong, and I think he explains well why in these parts of his post:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I suppose that one could make the argument that by offering himself as the racially transcendent candidate he is, in effect, capitalizing on the issue of race, but I think that would be unfair.

Obama, although born of a white mother and a black father, is considered by virtually everyone in America, including himself, as black. Why this is the case can be the subject of another thread, but it, undeniably, is. [..] If he never discussed his race he would still be considered black, by both his supporters and his detractors. [..]

[S]ince Obama is almost forced to identify himself as black by a world that seems instinctively compelled to label individuals (with skin color being a primary label), I think its unfair to accuse him of "playing a race card."

I really can't think of examples where he has tried to accuse his opponents or critics of being racist and never as a smoke screen to escape accountability for an error or misstatement. This is what I would call using the race card, not pointing out that his mixed heritage make him uniquely qualified to lead both whites and blacks.

You're right though that he is not race neutral, but then I don't know how he could be.


(Also, are you being sarcastic when you're using Bill Clinton as example to make the "even he says Obama plays the race card" point? Wouldnt Bill be, like, the very first person to make that claim on the Democratic side? Bill claiming that his wife's mortal opponent played the race card proves what, exactly?)
0 Replies
 
 

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