Obama Exposed As Black

sozobe wrote:

OK... I'm not sure how much that has to do with this discussion, though. First, he's seen far worse than this t-shirt (such as the recent WaPo article about a person saying they should "hang that darky from a tree.")

I guess nothing, but it was the piece you chose to pick out of my post.

My point was this:

Quote:

I just don't think his offense should be any greater than GWBs. And I don't think that anyone on this board should be pissed off about this, but then turn around and call GWB a chimp the next day.

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sozobe wrote:

The monkey idea is specifically tied to black people. It simply doesn't have the same meaning, or resonance, when it's directed at white people..

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IMO, there difference is the implication that any generic monkey image = any black person.

Context is important. Cjhsa's post would be completely different without the image of Obama and Wright.

You can't ignore the context just because you don't like it.

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onyxelle wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Well, I wonder how younger, non-Jim-Crow era blacks are taking this shirt.

I have a feeling that older people are 'teaching' younger people that they should be offended. As long as that happens, we'll never see this go away.

I even have Green Witch telling me I should go read a history book so that I can learn to be offended by this too.

i'm a 31 year old non-jim crow era black person, and it offends and disgusts me. Precisely why was stated well by CR. I am not now nor will I ever be convinced that someone in rural GA prints up a T-Shirt with a monkey and black man together is not doing anything other than bring up old racist imagery.

It might not matter to you, but it matters to me.

So, does it offend you when someone refers to blacks as 'niggers' ?

(Or do I have to tell you whether speaker is black or white before you can answer?)

For the record, I think the monkey shirt is highly offensive and disgusting. The ones who sell it ought to be ashamed, but probably have little or no capacity for shame.

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maporsche wrote:

Anyone serious about ending racism will ignore this T-Shirt as well. Or if you choose to be offended by it, then just do so understanding that racism thrives in the uproar it creates.

Nice way to turn the guilt question around. Yes, if a guy from Georgia wilfully stirs the racist pot that spawned an era of bloody racial oppression that ended just a generation ago, and people take offense, then it's the people that take offense that are guilty of perpetuating racism. How's that work again?

maporsche wrote:

I just don't think his offense should be any greater than GWBs.

Well, I'm sure that black people like the Obama's will take the admonishment from a young, white man about what to feel offended by and what not into the consideration it is worth. The word from a young white man who shrugs at a guy from Georgia making an Obama/monkey t-shirt, but gets indignant about how "this is not the way to fix racism" if people dare to speak up about that.

Yeah, racism is perpetuated by those who take offense at expressions of racism, that's it. The way to solve racism is not by speaking up about it, but by ignoring it.

Argh.

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nimh wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Anyone serious about ending racism will ignore this T-Shirt as well. Or if you choose to be offended by it, then just do so understanding that racism thrives in the uproar it creates.

Nice way to turn the guilt question around. Yes, if a guy from Georgia wilfully stirs the racist pot that spawned an era of bloody racial oppression that ended just a generation ago, and people take offense, then it's the people that take offense that are guilty of perpetuating racism. How's that work again?

maporsche wrote:
I just don't think his offense should be any greater than GWBs.

Well, I'm sure that black people like the Obama's will take the admonishment from a young, white man about what to feel offended by and what not into the consideration it is worth. The word from a young white man who shrugs at a guy from Georgia making an Obama/monkey t-shirt, but gets indignant about how "this is not the way to fix racism" if people dare to speak up about that.

Yeah, racism is perpetuated by those who take offense at expressions of racism, that's it. The way to solve racism is not by speaking up about it, but by ignoring it.

Argh.

Initially, "black people like Obama" would be half white. So I am not sure what point you are making.

Did Obama see racism when he went to college? When he was growing up with his white Mom?

Did he live on a reservation?

The only people making a point of Obama's skin color, are the racists in society who think it matters.

The only way to stop racism is to consider every to be of the same race (which we are). Stop dividing people into catagories (Italian-American, African -American, etc...)

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Nimh, I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard. I'm becoming more and more confused about what I can and cannot say (not "me", but people in general). I do not like that I've been called racist by people on this board for not supporting Obama; I do not like that I for some reason feel like I have to vote for Obama to "prove" that I'm not a racist.

I do not like affirmative action. I do not like how words take on a different meaning if a black person says it ("nigger" for example).

Obama has no chance of bridging the racial tensions if the people have no desire to fix them.

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maporsche wrote:

Nimh, I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard. I'm becoming more and more confused about what I can and cannot say (not "me", but people in general). I do not like that I've been called racist by people on this board for not supporting Obama; I do not like that I for some reason feel like I have to vote for Obama to "prove" that I'm not a racist.

I do not like affirmative action. I do not like how words take on a different meaning if a black person says it ("nigger" for example).

Obama has no chance of bridging the racial tensions if the people have no desire to fix them.

Now you and I have common ground. I can agree with most of what you say here. But this has nothing to do with someone being offended by a t-shirt that is apparently meant as a racist comment about a man running for president.

I don't believe anyone needs to vote for Obama to "prove" they are not a racist. I'm not sure where that belief comes from. And have you really been called a racist for not supporting Obama? What idiot would write that about anyone. Ooops, I could guess, but I'll keep that to myself. :wink:

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real life wrote:

So, does it offend you when someone refers to blacks as 'niggers' ?

(Or do I have to tell you whether speaker is black or white before you can answer?)

For the record, I think the monkey shirt is highly offensive and disgusting. The ones who sell it ought to be ashamed, but probably have little or no capacity for shame.

As a matter of fact, i DO find it an offensive term, regardless of who uses it. Some long years ago on A2K i said this same thing. It's not a good word, comes from a nasty background, and just because some black people and their white friends use it as a term of friendship and endearment doesn't make it OK.

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I find it offensive to be surrounded by a bunch of Obama supporters who are obviously all racists.

Also, trying to contain speech is a bad idea. You need to solve the underlying problem, and that is behavioral. It has nothing to do with a word, or skin color.

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maporsche wrote:

Nimh, I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard. I'm becoming more and more confused about what I can and cannot say (not "me", but people in general). I do not like that I've been called racist by people on this board for not supporting Obama; I do not like that I for some reason feel like I have to vote for Obama to "prove" that I'm not a racist.

I do not like affirmative action. I do not like how words take on a different meaning if a black person says it ("nigger" for example).

Obama has no chance of bridging the racial tensions if the people have no desire to fix them.

You should stop talking before you say something incredibly stupid. Oh, wait, I see I'm about four pages too late. Carry on.

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How about this idea, order the Census Bureau to quit classifying people by race, just whether they are citizens of the country or not. Identification in terms of where they live is fine, city and state, that was the original purpose of taking a census, but the agency has totally gotten out of hand, and is a good example of a bureaucracy gone awry. And request poll takers to quit obsessing over groups of people, stereotyping them, and all the other endless nonsense that goes with it.

When I identify myself, I don't say I am a German American or a Dutch American, or a Danish American. We are Americans or we aren't, plain and simple.

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kickycan wrote:

You should stop talking before you say something incredibly stupid. Oh, wait, I see I'm about four pages too late. Carry on.

What's incredibly stupid is Political Correctness, for which you seem to be vying to be the poster child.

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kickycan wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Nimh, I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard. I'm becoming more and more confused about what I can and cannot say (not "me", but people in general). I do not like that I've been called racist by people on this board for not supporting Obama; I do not like that I for some reason feel like I have to vote for Obama to "prove" that I'm not a racist.

I do not like affirmative action. I do not like how words take on a different meaning if a black person says it ("nigger" for example).

Obama has no chance of bridging the racial tensions if the people have no desire to fix them.

You should stop talking before you say something incredibly stupid. Oh, wait, I see I'm about four pages too late. Carry on.

Thanks for your sharp commentary.

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Your welcome. And thank you for showing us all how an idiot might try to defend that totally racist shirt.

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Blacks aren't holding up their end of the bargain. This is not a racist statement. It's a fact.

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Now that we know what the gun-loving, immigrant-hating redneck segment of America thinks, we return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

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DrewDad wrote:

Now that we know what the gun-loving, immigrant-hating redneck segment of America thinks, we return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

You mean real Americans. Not the elitist liberal trash that infects our coastal areas and so called "higher learning" centers like Austin. **** dude, Texas would remove Austin like a cancer if it could.

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cjhsa wrote:

You mean real Americans. Not the elitist liberal trash that infects our coastal areas and so called "higher learning" centers like Austin.

I do tend to think of the University of Texas as a center of higher learning, yes.

cjhsa wrote:

**** dude, Texas would remove Austin like a cancer if it could.

Doubtful. Too much wealth being created here.

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maporsche wrote:

Nimh, I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard. I'm becoming more and more confused about what I can and cannot say (not "me", but people in general).

Allright but what is specifically confusing about this case? Comparing blacks with monkeys = not OK. In the light of recent history, it's outrageous - as that guy in Georgia sure as hell knew. Instead of drawing the whole discussion about PC in general into this, cant we just call out actual, explicit racial insults for what they are when one of those comes up? I mean, this is not a particularly ambiguous case, is it?

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Obama Exposed As Black

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