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Obama Exposed As Black

 
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:22 am
Woiyo and Maporsche, the shirt has very little if anything to do with slavery. It has everything to do with attitudes and antiquated beliefs. Yes, without any historical context Maporsche, the shirt should be harmless. But we do not live in a vacuum of history. The idea the shirt is trying to conjure up is one that is racist in nature based on historical stereotypes. I think it goes too far, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

I agree that in a perfect society, the imagery would not evoke anything more than the idea that Obama is just another in a long line of monkeys running for the White House. But we are not yet a perfect society and prejudices still exist and this shirt just seems to bring those prejudices back to the forefront. Maybe in another 50 years or so, when there is no one around who lived through the Jim Crow south with its black codes the shirt can be seen as simply poking fun at a candidate, but in the here and now that really is not yet the case.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:27 am
I was starting to answer when I saw CoastalRat's post. I have to say I agree with him and will let his answer stand as mine.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:28 am
Well, until people choose not to be offended by these things, we will always be offended by these things.

I do not share the memories of the Jim Crow era, nor will I choose to be offended by this T-Shirt.

Anyone serious about ending racism will ignore this T-Shirt as well. Or if you choose to be offended by it, then just do so understanding that racism thrives in the uproar it creates.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:35 am
maporsche wrote:
Well, until people choose not to be offended by these things, we will always be offended by these things.

I do not share the memories of the Jim Crow era, nor will I choose to be offended by this T-Shirt.

Anyone serious about ending racism will ignore this T-Shirt as well. Or if you choose to be offended by it, then just do so understanding that racism thrives in the uproar it creates.


That is precisely my point. You are not black and did not live through that time and so the shirt does not offend you. I lived through that time period (although rather young at the time) but I am not black and quite honestly I am not offended by the shirt. But I can understand why it would offend some.

At some point in time, we will be a country where nobody lived through that time and then I would expect that a shirt of this nature would not cause any uproar at all.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:37 am
CoastalRat is saying it well...
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:43 am
maporsche wrote:

Anyone serious about ending racism will ignore this T-Shirt as well. Or if you choose to be offended by it, then just do so understanding that racism thrives in the uproar it creates.


Just the opposite. Ignoring racist propaganda condones it. You also need to study European history concerning how Germans (and most of the western world) ignored threats to Jews.

To swipe OCCOMBILL'S signature line:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
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maporsche
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:46 am
Well, I wonder how younger, non-Jim-Crow era blacks are taking this shirt.

I have a feeling that older people are 'teaching' younger people that they should be offended. As long as that happens, we'll never see this go away.



I even have Green Witch telling me I should go read a history book so that I can learn to be offended by this too.
0 Replies
 
onyxelle
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:50 am
maporsche wrote:
Well, I wonder how younger, non-Jim-Crow era blacks are taking this shirt.

I have a feeling that older people are 'teaching' younger people that they should be offended. As long as that happens, we'll never see this go away.



I even have Green Witch telling me I should go read a history book so that I can learn to be offended by this too.


i'm a 31 year old non-jim crow era black person, and it offends and disgusts me. Precisely why was stated well by CR. I am not now nor will I ever be convinced that someone in rural GA prints up a T-Shirt with a monkey and black man together is not doing anything other than bring up old racist imagery.

It might not matter to you, but it matters to me.
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onyxelle
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:55 am
maporsche wrote:
I have a feeling that older people are 'teaching' younger people that they should be offended. As long as that happens, we'll never see this go away.


Also, on this....my mom never taught me to be offended, and I don't teach my daughters to be offended. However, I have every obligation to teach my children History - American history which includes the nasty sordid part that spawns the need for conversations like these.

I don't tell them they ought to be offended, but I tell them and show them what happened. It's my job as a parent. If I'm going to teach them history, they're going to get all of it. I DO teach them that the people that are alive and around today are NOT the same people and don't bear the responsibility of the actions of those that are in the past.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:57 am
CoastalRat wrote:
Woiyo and Maporsche, the shirt has very little if anything to do with slavery. It has everything to do with attitudes and antiquated beliefs. Yes, without any historical context Maporsche, the shirt should be harmless. But we do not live in a vacuum of history. The idea the shirt is trying to conjure up is one that is racist in nature based on historical stereotypes. I think it goes too far, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

I agree that in a perfect society, the imagery would not evoke anything more than the idea that Obama is just another in a long line of monkeys running for the White House. But we are not yet a perfect society and prejudices still exist and this shirt just seems to bring those prejudices back to the forefront. Maybe in another 50 years or so, when there is no one around who lived through the Jim Crow south with its black codes the shirt can be seen as simply poking fun at a candidate, but in the here and now that really is not yet the case.


Sorry, Racism exists because society wants it to continue. The blacks want to be treated differently. Whites want to be treated differently. Native Americans ARE treated differently. And so on and so on.

What if the tee-shirt had a picture of Yogi Bear? Or Casper the Ghost (he is half white..remember?)

Society needs to get over it, and quickly.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 06:59 am
No, Green Witch suggested the history book so you would understand the historical context and have some idea as to why some are offended by this shirt.

As for younger, non-Jim Crow era blacks, I would bet that there is a much smaller percentage of them offended than their older relatives. That's just the way things work. The farther away in time a society gets to something, the less importance the event has on any one individuals life, thoughts and actions.

I had a friend once who truly offended me. But as time passed, I am less affected by his offense. I still remember it, and if he we to push it in my face I would not be happy. But I don't dwell on it when I am around him. My children have heard stories of this, yet they are not offended by this the way I was. It was not something against them, it was against dad. While they may think less of him because of it, they are not offended to the degree I was. In time, the story of this whole episode with my friend will be lessoned until at some point it will be forgotten, maybe in the grandchildren's time, who knows.

Same thing here. There will be fewer and fewer who will be offended by something like this shirt until in time there will be none at all. Hopefully.
Smile
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sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:00 am
Sure, society needs to get over it.

And society is getting there, slowly. Not there yet.

As GreenWitch says, the way to get over it is to speak up, say "yuck," whatever -- not just say "oh those black people shouldn't be offended."

It's offensive, and sneering at the people who take offense doesn't help anything.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:10 am
sozobe wrote:
Sure, society needs to get over it.

And society is getting there, slowly. Not there yet.

As GreenWitch says, the way to get over it is to speak up, say "yuck," whatever -- not just say "oh those black people shouldn't be offended."

It's offensive, and sneering at the people who take offense doesn't help anything.



Yes it's offensive. That is the intent of ridicule. GWB was offended. BHO should be offended.

I just don't think his offense should be any greater than GWBs. And I don't think that anyone on this board should be pissed off about this, but then turn around and call GWB a chimp the next day.

BHO did not grow up in the Jim Crow era. He freakin grew up in Hawaii, and then lived in Los Angeles and New York City. He never lived in the deep south, probably never saw real true lynching racism.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:11 am
And "lynching racism" is the only real true kind...

Come ON!
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maporsche
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:12 am
sozobe wrote:
And "lynching racism" is the only real true kind...

Come ON!


I didn't say it was the only real true kind.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:14 am
If that's not what you meant, great. This is your sentence, though:

Quote:
He never lived in the deep south, probably never saw real true lynching racism.


So if he saw racism that didn't include lynching, what kind of racism was it? The fake kind?
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:22 am
He's definitely seen racism.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080315/capt.df1e502536cc484a85b0130ec6bdc2b6.obama_pastor_wright_2008_ny111.jpg

Two peas in a pod. God damn America.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:27 am
sozobe wrote:
If that's not what you meant, great. This is your sentence, though:

Quote:
He never lived in the deep south, probably never saw real true lynching racism.


So if he saw racism that didn't include lynching, what kind of racism was it? The fake kind?



What I meant to say was institutionalized racism that would let lynchings go unpunished like we've heard about in the south. I'm sure Obama has met truly racist people, but the south is pretty well known as the most institutionalized racist part of the country.

He's lived in some of the most non-racist cities in the country.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:31 am
OK... I'm not sure how much that has to do with this discussion, though. First, he's seen far worse than this t-shirt (such as the recent WaPo article about a person saying they should "hang that darky from a tree.")

Second, what we're talking about here is not just offending Obama -- we're talking about whether the t-shirt is offensive, in a more general way. Onyxelle is offended. I'm offended. You're not. Since you're not, then nobody should be offended? How does that work?

The monkey idea is specifically tied to black people. It simply doesn't have the same meaning, or resonance, when it's directed at white people.

I think we all agree that we'd love society to get past this stuff and be truly color-blind. It's some-other-kind-of-blind to just claim that it's already happened and that nobody should be offended, though. We've come a long way, and have a lot further to go. This t-shirt doesn't help anything, and proclaiming that nobody should be offended by the t-shirt doesn't help anything.
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Thu 15 May, 2008 07:35 am
Ditto Sozobe's thoughts.
0 Replies
 
 

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