jodie34 wrote:My friend had told her husband they would need a house keeper if he wasn't willing to help with the chores and he would not agree to that.
Sounds to me like he wants to run the show.
Then I would say - don't do the chores. Or do whatever chores are helpful for you - wash your clothes not his for instance.
dyslexia wrote:interesting, in our home there is not segregation of chores and yet mostly every gets done. sometimes i cook and sometimes lady Diane does, same with kitchen and I do my own laundry but often times lady D will fold and put away, again there is no list of who does what.
That about how it works at my home too. Although I tend to clean the kitchen - my husband tends to clean the bathrooms. We share in cooking - pretty much whichever is that one's speciality cooks. We both do laundry depending on who has time. We both vaccum, dust and whatever else needs to be done.
As we both work it sort of depends on who happens to be more busy at the time. I just got off a particularly busy season at work, so hubby had been pulling more time on chores than me.
I just couldn't understand some one that wouldn't help participate in "running the house" - Doubtful I would be with them - it would seem that my spouse did not respect me as a partner and equal. I would probably kick his a$$.
Linkat, I have been meaning to ask you; do you still have feelings for me?
My heart still pounds for you, but it seems like an unrequited love.
Be there for me, my queen. Make me whole.
Linkat wrote:
...it would seem that my spouse did not respect me as a partner and equal. I would probably kick his a$$.
and if you did not respect him as a partner and and equal?..
((spousal battery is only a joking matter when it is the woman who is giving the beating))
ebrown_p wrote:Linkat wrote:
...it would seem that my spouse did not respect me as a partner and equal. I would probably kick his a$$.
and if you did not respect him as a partner and and equal?..
((spousal battery is only a joking matter when it is the woman who is giving the beating))
Of course - that goes without saying - both parties should respect one another.
gustavratzenhofer wrote:Linkat, I have been meaning to ask you; do you still have feelings for me?
My heart still pounds for you, but it seems like an unrequited love.
Be there for me, my queen. Make me whole.
What you want a beating from me - since that scratching episode I am not the same.
I agree with most things said so far, and hope soooo much, she will put her foot down and not let herself be used like that.
For every hour she works outside the house, she should miss out one hour of housework.
Obviously this hour should contain cooking HIS dinner or washing/ironing HIS clothes.
Please let us know how this is progressing!
Bohne... This is ridiculous.
Why won't you accept that men and women should be equal partners in a marriage?
[quote="ebrown_p"]Bohne... This is ridiculous.
Why won't you accept that men and women should be equal partners in a marriage?[/quote]
What are you going on about?
I perfectly do accept that!
But what is equal about her working AND doing the housework and him 'just' working and not lifting a finger at home!
Equality means equality Bohne.... the assumption you are making is that somehow the man owes the woman something.
First, let's look at the math of what you are proposing...
If the man works 8 hours and the woman does 8 hours of housework... this seems fair (there may be some agreement based on relative work and the details of the specific marriage) but let's assume that 8 hours of work for each is fair.
Under your plan... if the woman starts working full time. The woman would work 8 hours a day, and the man would be stuck with his job plus all of the housework.
This is hardly fair.
Second, your view of marriage as a struggle to make sure your partner doesn't get anything better of you, isn't appealing at all.
If marriage is a competition where you are always worried that your partner might be benefiting a bit more than you, what's is the point.
Part of the housework is washing the clothes. If washing the clothes is part of the division of labor that my wife and I agree one, I would feel awfully petty on removing my wife's clothes.
A marriage should be to people working together (and the key word is together) in a way that benefits the family.
If marriage becomes a battle, then it is time to just end it.
Respect for your spouse is a very important part of any marriage.
Why does it matter that it is a man and woman we are talking about?
( yes. I know . Because the original poster said so..)
But if this were two room mates, the issue would be different and there would be more solutions then more head nodding about " men being pigs"
Men are not pigs. Some people are.. but it is not just "men"
Some people do not clean like others. But because those who DO clean expect people around them to do the same thing, they get upset and frustrated when things dont happen that way . I know several men who are neat freaks to the point of being obsessive. I know A LOT of single men whos house I can walk into at any given time and it is cleaner then mine.
I know a woman whos house is so pig-ish you can smell rotten food in her sink, and dirty cat litter the second you open her door.
There are exceptions to every rule.. but the sweeping generalization of men is just not correct. ( At least in my opinion)
Everyone is wired differently.
Housework is not a womans job alone.
Housework is not a mans job alone.
housework belongs to the people who live there. It should only be one sided work if it is decided on when these people choose to inhabit the house together.
I love a good sexist joke, but I hate to hear men being trashed as if they were pigs and women being held on a pedestal because they feel as though housework is their domain only. And because they choose to clean with their time off from work, they are the harder working of the two in a relationship. Or if they do dishes every day , they should have their delicate feet rubbed because they are fragile and cant handle a lot of work like men can.
Damn.. talk about sexist.
shewolfnm wrote:Why does it matter that it is a man and woman we are talking about?
( yes. I know . Because the original poster said so..)
.
Because in almost every culture that ever existed in history housework was woman's work. Men doing housework is abnormal.
ebrown_p wrote:Equality means equality Bohne.... If marriage becomes a battle, then it is time to just end it.
Respect for your spouse is a very important part of any marriage.
Equality means that that each does half overall, not that each does half of everything. Not everybody agrees that that men and women should be equals in marriage either.
Marriage often becomes a battle of wills, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Respect is important, but one needs not agree to the concept of equality or agree to wash away all historic notions of gender specific roles in marriage and family to maintain respect for ones spouse.
My friend has decided that since he doesn't want any part of helping with the chores that she does not plan on getting a job. She is already doing some volunteer work and involved with other things to keep her busy. It was his big idea for her to get a job in the first place. I think he is very much a free loader all he thinks about is how he can benefit from something.
So it's a moot point really. She's decided not to get a job. I don't blame her. Thank goodness she does other things outside the home.
Why did he suggest that she get a job anyway?
ebrown_p wrote:Equality means equality Bohne.... the assumption you are making is that somehow the man owes the woman something.
What in the world are you on about??? Bohne didn't make any such assumption. She never made any reference to him owing her anything.
ebrown_p wrote:First, let's look at the math of what you are proposing...
If the man works 8 hours and the woman does 8 hours of housework... this seems fair (there may be some agreement based on relative work and the details of the specific marriage) but let's assume that 8 hours of work for each is fair.
Under your plan... if the woman starts working full time. The woman would work 8 hours a day, and the man would be stuck with his job plus all of the housework.
Again, nobody said he'd have to do "all of the housework". She spoke about reducing her home workload by each hour of work.
ebrown_p wrote:This is hardly fair.
Yeah, it's not fair for her, either.
ebrown_p wrote:Second, your view of marriage as a struggle to make sure your partner doesn't get anything better of you, isn't appealing at all.
Where are you getting that?? She never said anything like that.
ebrown_p wrote:If marriage is a competition where you are always worried that your partner might be benefiting a bit more than you, what's is the point.
Who said it was a competition?
ebrown_p wrote:Part of the housework is washing the clothes. If washing the clothes is part of the division of labor that my wife and I agree one, I would feel awfully petty on removing my wife's clothes.
He said he wasn't going to help her do the housework. If that's the case, in the limited time she has, she should concentrate on her own laundry, dinner, etc. Why should she do it all?
ebrown_p wrote:A marriage should be to people working together (and the key word is together) in a way that benefits the family.
Obviously the husband doesn't feel this way.
ebrown_p wrote:If marriage becomes a battle, then it is time to just end it.
If he had any respect for her, there wouldn't be a battle. After all, this was his idea.
ebrown_p wrote:Respect for your spouse is a very important part of any marriage.
No kidding.
Bohne was, as were all of us women, talking about her not doing all the housework after working in a job all day. According to the poster, the husband wanted his wife to get a job and informed her that he wouldn't be helping with the housework. How you can turn this into a feminist argument is beyond me.
It's pretty obvious that he is the one who isn't respecting her.
thanks, Mame. I'd already flipped off of the thread but wanted to see what you might post.
Mame wrote:It's pretty obvious that he is the one who isn't respecting her.
It is pretty obvious that we are outsiders looking into a relationship, with nothing more than second hand info from the wife's side to guide us. We are in no way qualified to pass any judgment on their relationship.
Men doing house work is a great topic, but it needs to be general.
[quote="ebrown_p"]Equality means equality Bohne.... the assumption you are making is that somehow the man owes the woman something.
First, let's look at the math of what you are proposing...
If the man works 8 hours and the woman does 8 hours of housework... this seems fair (there may be some agreement based on relative work and the details of the specific marriage) but let's assume that 8 hours of work for each is fair.
Under your plan... if the woman starts working full time. The woman would work 8 hours a day, and the man would be stuck with his job plus all of the housework.
This is hardly fair.
Second, your view of marriage as a struggle to make sure your partner doesn't get anything better of you, isn't appealing at all.
If marriage is a competition where you are always worried that your partner might be benefiting a bit more than you, what's is the point.
Part of the housework is washing the clothes. If washing the clothes is part of the division of labor that my wife and I agree one, I would feel awfully petty on removing my wife's clothes.
A marriage should be to people working together (and the key word is together) in a way that benefits the family.
If marriage becomes a battle, then it is time to just end it.
Respect for your spouse is a very important part of any marriage.[/quote]
I am not sure if you are deliberately trying to misunderstand me!
As we heard, the man is not planning to do ANY housework.
So he will be doing his 8 hours of work and NOTHING ELSE!
He wants to have the fun with the grandchildren, but not put in ANY effort and work into it either!
Where do you see equality, here?
If you start worrying too much about not doing any more than your partner, I think you can kick the relationship, but if you are being used and doing EVERYTHING while your partner is only doing what's necessary (i.e. work he is getting paid for), you can probably kick it just as quickly (or at least I would!)
I don't think it is possible, to use maths on this kind of problem.
My one hour plus, one hour minus, wasn't to be taken 100% literally either.
But would it be fair, if they both work 8 hours a day, and she is still doing all his laundry (plus her own), cooking dinner, doing the cleaning?
And that seems to be what he is expecting.
Relax on the housework if you work outside the house, too, but make sure, you do it in a way he notices...
(Maybe mean, but that would be my reaction to his unreasonable request!)
By the way, I think my husband does a lot more of the housework, than I do.
He does ALL the laundry, plus some cleaning, dishes, etc.
Then again, he was gone for three months last year, and will be gone for four months again, soon.
In that time I will be doing all the cooking, laundry, getting up in the morning, getting munchkin ready, take him places, AND I work, too.
AND I am not complaining about it either.
THAT is (in my eyes) how a relationship works.
Everybody chips in!
In all areas!
