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The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 07:33 am
nimh wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Every protestor there was not a part of the 'Coalition', the article is about only that faction's wishes which could not be enforced I'm sure.


And of course The National Review will update its readers on that, reporting on how the demonstration in the end actually featured a very pluralistic crowd and message - you know, so as to correct the earlier impression of sheer neo-Bolshevik indoctrination its reporting might have left - right? For all those readers who won't go browse the Guardian website?


I guess it's up to you to set them straight.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 07:37 am
Gel, reference 3ID After Action Report, see: This

BTW, I've read the entire thing, and found nothing of particularly noteworthy nature. Plenty of interesting stuff, to the military trivia buff, but, all in all, a typical Divisional After Action Report; as is the function of such, it is an objective criticism of unit performance, with emphasis on and recommendations pertinent to revealed areas of concern as regards operational efficiency. I did note that tire-wear statitics were seen to demonstrate the need to develop a tread compound more specifically suited to desert conditions. I should hope, in view of declared US military deployment considerations, that the recommendation is given more attention than were similar recommendations following Desert Storm. Such things as air and fluid filters were upgraded due to deficiencies noted in that excercize, but the tire wear issue appears to have slipped between the cracks.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 07:40 am
BTW ... I'm a real fan of Farm and Fleet; where else can you get house paint, jeans, a clock radio, and horse-wormer in one stop?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 07:59 am
Brand X wrote:
I guess it's up to you to set them straight.


Heh.

Or for us to decide their journalism/commentary is shoddy ...

I mean, if they don't update their readers, of course.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:03 am
timberlandko wrote:
BTW ... I'm a real fan of Farm and Fleet; where else can you get house paint, jeans, a clock radio, and horse-wormer in one stop?


Sounds like you got a busy day ahead of you big fella .... don't forget to set the clock on the radio or you'll miss Rush ... Very Happy Very Happy
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:09 am
Rush is already off Oxycontin?
That didn't take long...
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Suzette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:11 am
Sofia wrote:
Rush is already off Oxycontin?
That didn't take long...


That's what they say...but, I don't believe it for a moment. It might actually be worth listening to him ... just to wait for an 'Oxycontin' moment :wink: !
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:21 am
Apparently, he returned to radio this past Monday ... there were news reports. I dunno; I'm not a fan. Bluster, bombast, hyperbole and hysteria are bluster, bombast, hyperbole and hysteria whether spun to The Right or The Left.
Millions, however, are evidently more easily entertained. Of interest, and certain further development, are legal issues surrounding his self-inflicted travails. There yet could be significant inconvenience for the blowhard.
0 Replies
 
Suzette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:30 am
How true, Timber. I certainly hope he gets a dose of one thing he supports: the drug war and its effects on the addict!
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Suzette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 09:32 am
Brand X wrote:
It isn't ironic if you consider who organized the protest, naughty Suzette.


Oh, is my face Embarrassed ; D'oh!
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Suzette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 09:44 am
timberlandko wrote:
In referrence to the Santayana quote enshrined at Auschwitz, I'll submit those mistakes we cannot afford to repeat.


Thank you, Timber.


"The first Palestine High Commissioner, Sir Herbert Samuel, arrived in Palestine on July 1, 1920. He was a weak administrator who was too ready to compromise and appease the extremist, nationalistic Arab minority led by Haj Amin al-Husseini. When the existing Arab Mufti of Jerusalem (religious leader) died in 1921, Samuels was influenced by anti-Zionist British officials on his staff. He pardoned al-Husseini and, in January 1922, appointed him as the new Mufti, and even invented a new title of Grand Mufti. He was simultaneously made President of a newly created Supreme Muslim Council. Al-Husseini thereby became the religious and political leader of the Arabs.

The appointment of the young al-Husseini as Mufti was a seminal event.

Prior to his rise to power, there were active Arab factions supporting cooperative development of Palestine involving Arabs and Jews. But al-Husseini would have none of that; he was devoted to driving Jews out of Palestine, without compromise, even if it set back the Arabs 1000 years.

Implicated in the [1920] disturbances was a political adventurer named Haj Amin al Husseini. Haj Amin, was sentenced by a British court to fifteen years hard labor. Conveniently allowed to escape by the police, he was a fugitive in Syria. Shortly after, the British then allowed him to return to Palestine where, despite the opposition of the muslim High Council who regarded him as a hoodlum, Haj Amin was appointed by the British High Commissioner as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem for life. Al-Husseini represented newly emerging proponents of militant, Palestinian Arab nationalism, a previously unknown concept. Once he was in power, he began a campaign of terror and intimidation against anyone opposed to his rule and policies. He killed Jews at every opportunity, but also eliminated Arabs who did not support his campaign of violence. Husseini was not willing to negotiate or make any kind of compromise for the sake of peace.

-cut-

While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler's special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS "mountain divisions" that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.

At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.

With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero. After the war al-Husseini was indicted by Yugoslavia for war crimes, but escaped prosecution. The Mufti was never tried because the Allies were afraid of the storm in the Arab world if the hero of Arab nationalism was treated as a war criminal."

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:10 am
Two police stations in Baghdad were bombed today, killing Iraqis.
0 Replies
 
Suzette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:22 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Two police stations in Baghdad were bombed today, killing Iraqis.


Attackers detonated explosive-packed vehicles at two police stations Saturday, killing at least 12 Iraqis and two suicide bombers. In Baghdad, a civilian cargo plane was forced to land with its wing ablaze, and a military source said it was hit by a shoulder-launched missile.

In recent weeks, insurgents have shot down five U.S. helicopters using shoulder-fired missiles and rocket-propelled grenades. About 40 U.S. servicemen were killed and nearly two dozen injured.

The car bombings occurred a day after guerrillas fired more than a dozen rockets from donkey carts at the Oil Ministry and two hotels used by foreign journalists and civilian defense contractors.

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusintl/ap11-21-172925.asp?reg=mideast&vts=112220030859


cicerone imposter: your point?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:37 am
thanks for you response(s) Kara, much sense, as usual.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:39 am
Suzette wrote:
Saturday, killing at least 12 Iraqis and two suicide bombers. In Baghdad, a civilian cargo plane was forced to land with its wing ablaze, and a military source said it was hit by a shoulder-launched missile.


Quote:
An Airbus jet belonging to the German courier service DHL makes an emergency landing in Iraq after apparently being fired upon by a surface-to-air missile.
[...]
Reports said the civilian Airbus 300 cargo plane was struck by a SA 7 ground-to-air missile and forced to make an emergency landing at Baghdad International Airport shortly after takeoff on a flight between Baghdad and Bahrain. The plane's engine was visibly burning and it left a massive trail of smoke as it landed at the airport.
[...]

An Airbus jet belonging to the German courier service DHL makes an emergency landing in Iraq after apparently being fired upon by a surface-to-air missile.

Eyewitnesses reported on Saturday morning that a shoulder-fired missile struck a jet operated by express courier service DHL over Iraq. The reports have not been confirmed by DHL, but airport officials say the plane may have been hit in a surface-to-air attack.

Reports said the civilian Airbus 300 cargo plane was struck by a SA 7 ground-to-air missile and forced to make an emergency landing at Baghdad International Airport shortly after takeoff on a flight between Baghdad and Bahrain. The plane's engine was visibly burning and it left a massive trail of smoke as it landed at the airport.
[...]
If the attack is confirmed, it would mark the first time a civilian plane has been forced to land as the result of an attack in postwar Iraq. Many observers said it was only a matter of time before a incident like Saturday's would occur. In recent weeks, a number of military helicopters have been shot down with similar weapons, a propaganda coup for Iraqi groups resisting the country's U.S.-led occupiers.

Missile attacks have long been anticipated, and pilots flying into Iraq use a special spiral landing technique designed to stave off attacks. Pilots reduce their altitude to 4,500 meters above the airport and immediately begin a circular landing pattern that involves sharp banking turns and brings them to the ground within 4.5 minutes. Because the missiles travel faster than the jets, they also require more space to maneuver, so the landing pattern makes it much harder for a missile to hit its intended target. The maneuver, however, cannot protect planes at the time of take off or when they prepare to begin the landing procedure.

With flight in Iraq still wrought with peril, most people traveling into the country come by ground. There are charter planes for workers affiliated with non-government organizations and journalists, but most fly into Amman and finish the remainder of the 880-kilometer journey by bus or other ground transportation.

The threat of missile attacks has thus far kept officials from reopening Baghdad Airport for commercial passenger service, despite interim Transport Minister Behnam Polis' request that it be opened for traffic.

The logistics of occupation

Nonetheless, the U.S. military has relied heavily on DHL's fleet of Airbus A-300, Antonov AN-12 and Boeing 727 aircraft to deliver equipment, mail and other essentials to Iraq. DHL is one of the largest mail and supplies delivery contractors for the U.S. military in Iraq, with multiple daily flights into Baghdad carrying as much as 50 tons of daily letters between soldiers and their families.

There are currently 110 flights into Baghdad each day - 70 official or military and 40 civilian or cargo jets, according to the news wire Agence France Presse.

source: Deutsche Welle

Well, seems, the war starts really again.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:42 am
Why isnt my signature ENGLAND WALLOP WALLABIES showing?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:43 am
oh it is
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:43 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Why isnt my signature ENGLAND WALLOP WALLABIES showing?
It does, doesn't it?

Besides, who cares? :wink:
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 11:44 am
it is, too.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 12:03 pm
Quote:
I doubt any western-style rational thinking has a chance of being answered. We can see them as extremists and terrorists which they are from our viewpoint, but they have a completely different perspective.


Thanks ci I think you highlight a very important point. Despite all our attempts to accommodate their thinking, they are fundamentally different. They have a logic, but their brains are wired up differently from ours.
0 Replies
 
 

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