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The UN, US and Iraq IV

 
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 01:50 pm
Again, dys, this is the norm for any war.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 03:09 pm
Then, there's the fact a certain number of troops will be AWOL at any given time. Not all of them are deserters; many are found to have been anything from stupidly irresponsible to blamelessly unfortunate.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 08:06 pm
Could the War Have Been Averted?(link)

Quote:
A possible negotiated peace deal was laid out in a heavily guarded compound in Baghdad in the days before the war, but a top former Pentagon adviser says he was ordered not to pursue the deal, ABCNEWS has learned.

* * *

A week later, according to Hage, he and an associate were asked to come to Baghdad, when Hage says he met with Saddam Hussein's chief of intelligence, Gen. Tahir Habbush, later labeled the Jack of Diamonds in the deck of cards depicting the most-wanted members of Saddam Hussein's regime. Habbush is still at large.

"He was conveying a message," said Hage. "He was conveying an offer." Hage said Habbush laid out terms of a negotiated peace during a four-hour session beginning at midnight at a compound in Baghdad.

Hage said Habbush repeated public denials by the regime that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction but offered to allow several thousand U.S. agents or scientists free rein in the country to carry out inspections. "Based on my meeting with his man," said Hage, "I think an effort was there to avert war. They were prepared to meet with high-ranking U.S. officials."

Hage said Habbush also offered U.N.-supervised free elections, oil concessions to U.S. companies and was prepared to turn over a top al Qaeda terrorist, Abdul Rahman Yasin, who Haboush said had been in Iraqi custody since 1994.

(Yasin is one of the FBI's most wanted terrorists, indicted in connection with the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. Hage says Habbush claimed the United States had refused earlier offers to turn him over. Yasin remains at large and is now thought to be one of the people behind the recent wave of attacks against U.S. forces in Iraq.)

Throughout the period of the negotiations claimed by Hage, the Bush administration publicly maintained it would not conduct negotiations with Baghdad to avoid a war that did not first involve the unconditional departure of Saddam Hussein from Iraq or his surrender.

But Richard Perle, then chairman of the Defense Policy Advisory Board, said in the weeks leading up to war he told the CIA, but they refused the plan to meet with Iraqi officials to discuss a possible peace deal along the lines of the plan outlined by Hage to ABCNEWS.

"Although I was not enthusiastic about the offer, I was willing to meet with the Iraqis," Perle told ABCNEWS. "The United States government told me not to." Perle would not disclose which official or arm of the government rejected the talks.

According to Pentagon e-mails obtained by ABCNEWS, Hage's report of the Iraqi offer was forwarded to Defense Department officials on Feb. 20, including Jaymie Durnan, who at the time was the top aide to Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. However, Pentagon officials said Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were not aware of the talks.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 09:32 pm
Wow!!!!
If this is true it is clearly an indictement of the US Admin. Why hasn't this been brought forth in any newspaper, radio or tv?

Headline: War Could Have Avoided!!!!
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 09:40 pm
This op-ed piece may be kinder to George W. than I'd be. Nonetheless, Kristof hits the high points of the issues and puts them together in a very well-written, well-thought-out opinion article for the NY Times:

Quote:
November 5, 2003

Death by Optimism
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 10:21 pm
I remember those Iraqis cheering Saddam. It's rather ironic that this administration thinks that the Iraqi cheers come from the heart, and not from total fear.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 08:51 am
I hadn't realized that the Senate didn't have a individual, recorded vote for the $87B appropriation:

Quote:
If defeat is an orphan, the U.S. occupation of Iraq, for which the Senate appropriated $87 billion by a voice vote on Monday, should already go down in the loss column.

By rejecting the normal option of a recorded vote, America's senators decided that they did not want to be held individually accountable for our continuing presence in Iraq. That decision speaks far louder than their decision to actually fund our forces there and the Iraqi reconstruction.


Escape by Voice Vote
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 09:41 am
Yes, I heard a report on that yesterday, PDiddie, and was horrified. We really need to go after them on that one. McCain ducked it too, even when asked. A significant discredit.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 09:50 am
By Zbigniew Brzezinski
Quote:
I cite these events because I think they underline two very disturbing phenomena -- the loss of U.S. international credibility, the growing U.S. international isolation.

Both together can be summed up in a troubling paradox regarding the American position and role in the world today. American power worldwide is at its historic zenith. American global political standing is at its nadir. Why? What is the cause of this? These are facts. They're measurable facts. They're also felt facts when one talks to one's friends abroad who like America, who value what we treasure but do not understand our policies, are troubled by our actions and are perplexed by what they perceive to be either demagogy or mendacity.
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/10/brzezinski-z-10-31.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 09:54 am
Here's something to watch for...
Quote:
Government ministers, including Tony Blair, could potentially face international prosecution for war crimes over the conduct of the war in Iraq, the organiser of a legal debate into the conflict, said today.

International law experts will be picking over the government's legal case for going to war in Iraq and the way the occupation is being conducted at an all-day public debate on Saturday.

A panel of eight leading lawyers from the UK, Canada, France and Ireland will debate the question: "Was it legal to go to war?" and are expected to cover topics such as the use of cluster bombs and depleted uranium, the targeting of civilian buildings and the military occupation. The debate at the London School of Economics is open to the public.

Dr Andrew Williams, of Warwick University's law department, who is organising the event, said: "We don't know if war crimes have been committed or if global laws have been violated but there are troublesome aspects that deserve examination and inquiry."
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/worldwide/story/0,9959,1079236,00.html
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 10:03 am
Blatham -- I've just been reading up on an issue I knew nothing about, and that's the effort of the US to take over Mexico's proud (if doddering) national petroleum industry. Pemex's infrastructure needs rebuilding and there is an effort in Congress to get the Mexican government to agree to privatize Pemex (not only leaving it wide open for takeover but robbing Mexico of a national symbol) in return for help in modernizing it. Tied to this is another carrot: amnesty for Mexicans now living and working in the US. We may not have our priorities in order, but we make sure our quid pro quo's work to our advantage in the guise of foreign "assistance" and generosity. All of this will be presented to American TV viewers as another example of our savvy and decency. The cynicism of all this -- and the lack of respect for the complexity of Mexico's political and economic structure -- just makes me sick.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 02:07 pm
Tartarin
Tartarin, do you have a site for the article you refer to. I would like to have fbaezer read and comment on it.

BumbleBeeBoogie
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 03:43 pm
BBB -- What I posted was the result of mooching around Google News -- type in Pemex, then sort by date. This isn't new news, but there are updates...

Also, go to NPR's Diane Rehm show. The first hour this morning was devoted to relations with Mexico.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 03:45 pm
For those who haven't yet seen this, an excerpt:

Quote:
Halliburton Contract Extension Cancelled Amid Allegations of Overcharging TaxpayersThe Army Corps of Engineers is "likely" to cancel the no-bid contract extension granted a week ago to Halliburton for delivery of oil-related services amid allegations that Halliburton is overcharging the federal government to import oil into Iraq. The decision to revisit the contract extension comes in part due to the assertions from inside the Pentagon that Halliburton's price for imported gasoline was "at least double what it should be."1

Jeffrey Jones, the Director of the Defense Energy Support Center (DESC), told minority staff of the House Government Reform Committee that it costs the DESC $1.08 to $1.19 to buy and import fuel via truck into Iraq - a price that's less than half the $2.65 Halliburton is charging the US government.2 ....
http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df11062003.html
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 03:58 pm
BBB found this interesting info
BBB found this interesting info

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:VDk3YqRO4KoJ:www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/prn/texas/2131291+Pemex&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 04:07 pm
http://www.bartcop.com/read_again.JPG
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 04:39 pm
Nice one, BBB! I wonder if we checked Emerson in the FEC list of contributors...
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 04:40 pm
BTW -- Did you come across a general article (very recent) in the Albuquerque Journal? Which is the first one which popped up in Google when I was looking? Kind of an overview.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 05:56 pm
Tartarin wrote:
For those who haven't yet seen this, an excerpt:

Quote:
Halliburton Contract Extension Cancelled Amid Allegations of Overcharging TaxpayersThe Army Corps of Engineers is "likely" to cancel the no-bid contract extension granted a week ago to Halliburton for delivery of oil-related services amid allegations that Halliburton is overcharging the federal government to import oil into Iraq. The decision to revisit the contract extension comes in part due to the assertions from inside the Pentagon that Halliburton's price for imported gasoline was "at least double what it should be."1

Jeffrey Jones, the Director of the Defense Energy Support Center (DESC), told minority staff of the House Government Reform Committee that it costs the DESC $1.08 to $1.19 to buy and import fuel via truck into Iraq - a price that's less than half the $2.65 Halliburton is charging the US government.2 ....
http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df11062003.html


Gas goes up that much here in the states when a pipeline busts or similar incident, much less hauling fuel amongst RPG's etc. I'm not defending the Haliburton situation, I just think it's asinine to suggest this is blatant gouging considering the environment in which they are hauling flammable liquids through. The DESC are quoting common freight rates and profit margins, if it were my company I would be charging at least as much they are for the risk.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2003 06:03 pm
here are some comments on possibly asking turkish troops to aid in the iraq CONFLICT(it's not a war, is it ?). hbg http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/reuters11-06-143409.asp?reg=EUROPE#body
0 Replies
 
 

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