The UN, US and Iraq IV

We also share a great country and sons in harm way.

How many hammer blows does it take for some folks to realize they are actually being hit with a hammer? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17707-2003Oct25.html

We had a "PEACE" demonstration in San Francisco yesterday. They want the US to pull out of Iraq. I reacted to this demonstration with somewhat of a surprise, because I'm not so sure it's a good idea to "not finish the job" before we pull out - or the UN takes over. Any dissenting views?

Perhaps an unfortunate choice of words, c.i. It brings to mind pulling out before we ejaculate all over the country.

Hey ... a "Reach Around" is only fair

Timber: "Unfortunately, that has never worked. As I mentioned, whatever else may be said, the US has demonstrated the ability to pull it off. No one else ever has. That's good enough for me."

That's precisely and exactly wrong. WE rejected the international coalition because it wouldn't do our bidding, work at our speed, come to the conclusions we wanted it to (as with WMD's). And the US has demonstrated that, in spite of all its bluster and self-assuredness, it has screwed up like a banana republic. That's not good enough for me, not by a long shot.

Tartar's quote, "That's precisely and exactly wrong. WE rejected the international coalition because it wouldn't do our bidding, work at our speed, come to the conclusions we wanted it to (as with WMD's). And the US has demonstrated that, in spite of all its bluster and self-assuredness, it has screwed up like a banana republic. That's not good enough for me, not by a long shot." Couldn't have said it any better myself.

You obviously see it that way. Some folks differ. Among those who differ are those who are getting the job done. That is fortunate for all concerned. Whining and waiting and hand-wringing have never solved a damned thing, nor have they ever been sound political strategems. Fortunately, they appear to be core strategems of those opposed to current Iraq policy.

Of course one should always leave judgment of an outcome to those who created the outcome, Timber! Yup. Uh huh. That's what this admin is so good at -- telling others what a good job it's doing!

I have a feeling there's enough whining, waiting and hand-wringing amongst those who are "getting things done." We may not always observe this -- political regimes have always found ways to conceal what goes on behind the scenes. There are cracks in the political and diplomatic foundation of our actions in Iraq and that is disturbing. To not acknowledge these cracks is simply denial.

Yup, while we lose a few of our military men and women every week. Yup, they're doing a bang up job. Yup. What was the good news again?

Yes. Please do not attempt to change the minds of our fearless leaders.
Yes. We must allow our betters to make the hard decisions for us.
Yes. We must not present any disagreement with current policy for that would be hand-wringing of the highest degree and is unseemly.

Shucks.

This war had nothing, zilch, zero to do with the war on terror (should any of that be capitalized?) This was and is a war of opportunity. It makes it look as if we are actually doing something about the terrorists in the world when we are not.

What ought to be done now is to move very quickly, and without regard to whether any US company gets to make any money off the result, to empower the current Iraqi ruling committee to run the country and get the hell out of there. I think New Year's Day would be a good day to aim at.

And then we could get back to focusing on where the actual enemies of this nation and the free world are: (Someone phone the Sauds and tell them to shape up and call that weasel running Pakistan and tell him to get authority over those areas of his country that are lawless, he might want to pick up Osama while he visits there.) North Korea.

Hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion. If your opinion is that things are being done incorrectly, then get busy, quit whining, waiting, and handwringing, and get your folks elected. When you take over, you can do it your way. Like it or not, and obviously, some do not like it, The Current Administration is the team at bat at the moment. Yelling at the batters isn't gonna retire the side; ya gotta put them out to get your chance to score. Neither the pitching nor the fielding of The Opposition has been very effective so far. Work on that.

You write as though your "side" of the discussion had some validity. Ask yourself this: if the Clinton administration were running this "war" in precisely the same way the Bush administration has, would you be applauding Clinton?

I had no qualm with his endrun around the UN to finally bring things to a head in the Balkans, Tart, apart from it having taken so long for him to get off his butt and do something about it ... in fact, I'm still disappointed that he did so little so late, and left much of it undone when it finally was handed over to the bumbling of The UN. As to how he would have handled the current situation, I'm forced to consider both Somalia and The Balkans, and conclude its a good thing The Current Administration has the reins. As to Korea, and Iran, I think of the fact that what we now know is that both covertly defied the agreements they entered into with The Previous Administration, which should have been keeping better tabs on the situation. While The Democrats are great for getting us into war situations Harry Truman is the only one I can think of that ever got us out of one, and he managed to be there for the start, but not the finish, of the next one. History just ain't your side's freind in this particular regard.

Yes---without reservation--period

Which once again ducked the question.

Tartarin, I would hold anyone conducting this war at this time to the same criticisms. One criticism I do not expect the Current Administration to fall afoul of is that it might "Cut-and-Run", or that it has been distracted from the overall War on Terrorism or from other immediate concerns, foreign and domestic. I know you don't see things quite that way, but I do. So do lots of others ... among whom are included numerous elected legislators.

Yeah, quit your bitchin', little girl; there's no cryin' in baseball.

And if you can't beat the big, bad Yankees fair and square, then lie, cheat, steal, stack the Supreme Court, and have the soldiers at war write letters, sorta like this one:



That's how you win in 'Murka. Shock and awe. Ten-run rule. *spit* *scratch*