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Hillary Clinton for President - 2008

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 11:12 am
real life wrote:
Yep. Gotta love his reason:

Quote:
He cited Obama's support from an overwhelming majority of young voters as the major reason for his decision.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/21/superdelegate-schmoozed-by-chelsea-backs-obama/

What a sheep.

Can this poli sci major think for himself? It appears that he cannot.

Doncha just love the education system that churns out such Me Toos ?


Alternatively, he might define his task as Superdelegate as best representing the voters of his constituency (however he defines it). Since one Superdelegate's vote equals that of thousands of regular primary voters, there is a wholly legitimate reason for deciding that, rather than using your in many ways unreasonable privilege to try to swing the result away from the voters' preferences, it is better to confirm what a majority of voters like you have already decided.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 02:36 pm
Then, according to this Democrat, Hillary should win. Maybe.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27036
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 02:39 pm
I realize the superdelagate system has been around for a while, but I apparently didn't tune into it before this election. I can't wrap my brain around it - it seems like a ticket to disenfranchisement, that is, a deliberate stroke of "fear of the mob".
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 02:54 pm
ossobuco wrote:
I realize the superdelagate system has been around for a while, but I apparently didn't tune into it before this election. I can't wrap my brain around it - it seems like a ticket to disenfranchisement, that is, a deliberate stroke of "fear of the mob".

Maybe this is just a way for party big wigs to get attention and tickets to the convention. After all, the super delegates haven't decided a recent election and all the delegates are all upset that they might decide this one. They seem like children upset that reality is intruding on their playdate.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 04:46 pm
It seems that the right hates strong, independent, women, which explains the visceral hatred of Hillary. The right similarly hates and vilifies Pelosi, who has been nothing but an intelligent and fine leader.

McCain was fully complicit in the S& L scandal. He tooks trips and gifts from Keating himself, and worked hard in congress to benefit Keating. He was let off with a slap on the wrist by a Rep-controlled ethics committee.

We now see that McCain worked hard to help the clients of his "friend," Iseman. He is a complete sleaze who should not be elected to dog catcher, much less president of the USA.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:39 pm
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Then, according to this Democrat, Hillary should win. Maybe.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27036

Yeah, let's refuse the Indys whose support the Democrats need in the general election any and all say in who the Democratic nominee will be. Sound plan.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:41 pm
Quote:
An excited crowd of about 750 supporters waiting for President Clinton broke into chants-including one woman who lead a group in cheering, "We want a mama, not Obama!"

linkadink
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:51 pm
Sounds like the kind of freakshow that breaks out when panic looms:

Quote:
Team Clinton: Down, and Out of Touch

By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, February 26, 2008; Page A02

They are in the last throes, if you will.

As Vice President Cheney knows, such predictions can be perilous. Still, there was no mistaking a certain flailing, a lashing-out, as two Clinton advisers sat down for a bacon-and-eggs session yesterday at the St. Regis Hotel.

The Christian Science Monitor had assembled the éminences grises of the Washington press corps -- among them David Broder of The Post, Maureen Dowd of the New York Times and columnist Mark Shields -- for what turned out to be a fascinating tour of an alternate universe.

First came Harold Ickes, who gave a presentation about Hillary Rodham Clinton's prospects that severed all ties with reality. "We're on the way to locking this nomination down," he said of a candidate who appears, if anything, headed in the other direction.

But before the breakfast crowd had a chance to digest that, they were served another, stranger course by Clinton campaign spokesman Phil Singer. Asked about an accusation on the Drudge Report that Clinton staffers had circulated a photo of Barack Obama wearing Somali tribal dress, Singer let 'er rip.

"I find it interesting that in a room of such esteemed journalists that Mr. Drudge has become your respected assignment editor," he lectured. "I find it to be a reflection of one of the problems that's gone on with the overall coverage of this campaign." He went on to chide the journalists for their "woefully inadequate" coverage of Obama, "a point that has been certainly backed up by the 'Saturday Night Live' skit that opened the show this past Saturday evening, which I would refer you all to."

The brief moment explained everything about the bitter relations between Clinton's campaign and the media: Singer taunting the likes of Broder, who began covering presidential politics two decades before Singer was born, with a comedy sketch that showed debate moderators fawning over Obama.

"That's your assignment editor?" responded Post columnist Ruth Marcus.

"That's my assignment editor," Singer affirmed.

That Clinton's spokesman is taking his cues from late-night comedy is as good an indication as any of where things stand in the onetime front-runner's campaign. To keep the press from declaring the race over before the voters of Ohio and Texas have their say next week, Clinton aides have resorted to a mixture of surreal happy talk and angry accusation.

Yesterday, Ickes played the good cop. "We think we are on the verge of our next up cycle," he reported, even suggesting the apparent impossibility that Clinton "may be running even" with Obama when all the contests are over. "This race is very close," he judged. "This is tight as a tick."

The reporters were dubious. The Monitor's Dave Cook mused about the consequences of Clinton "battling after there's not much chance."

"For the love of God, we can't say there's not much chance here," Ickes maintained.

David Chalian of ABC News reminded Ickes that Obama's lead in delegates is now of the size Ickes had said would be "significant."

"As we all know in this city, I have a very short memory," Ickes answered.

At one point, he warned of "a bitter and potentially very divisive credentials fight" at the Democratic convention. At another point, he compared the race to 1972, when a strong front-runner, Ed Muskie (now played by Clinton), was upended by an antiwar candidate, George McGovern (now played by Obama), who lost to the Republicans. "The fact is, he could not carry his weight in the general election," Ickes argued.

But Ickes could suspend reality for only so long. He referred to Clinton's opponent at one point as "Senator Barack," swapped 1992 for 1972 and Michigan for Vermont, and said of the Pennsylvania primary: "Um, what month is it?" Eventually, Carl Leubsdorf of the Dallas Morning News drew a confession out of Ickes: "I think if we lose in Texas and Ohio, Mrs. Clinton will have to make her decisions as to whether she goes forward or not."

Ickes's return to Earth seemed only to further outrage Singer.

When Amy Chozick of the Wall Street Journal asked about how combative Clinton would be in tonight's debate with Obama, Singer informed her that it was an "absurd" question. "I don't think . . . any of our senior people have the ESP skills that you all ascribe to us," he said.

When Time's Jay Newton-Small inquired about the Obama photo on Drudge, Singer used the occasion to complain about the press's failure to examine Obama's ties to violent radicals who were part of the Weathermen of the 1960s. "As far as I can tell, there was absolutely no follow-up on the part of the Obama traveling press corps," he said.

Even Broder, asking about why Clinton had abandoned the North American Free Trade Agreement, was informed by Singer that "elections are about the future."

Cook, the host, got similar treatment when he asked why Clinton hasn't released her tax returns. "When she's the general-election nominee, she'll release the tax returns," Singer said.

After the breakfast, one of the questioners asked Singer whether he could elaborate on the tax-return issue. He dismissed her with more hostility. When the reporter suggested that Singer was being antagonistic, the spokesman explained.

"Sixteen months into this," he said, "I'm just angry."
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 11:29 pm
nimh wrote:
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Then, according to this Democrat, Hillary should win. Maybe.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27036

Yeah, let's refuse the Indys whose support the Democrats need in the general election any and all say in who the Democratic nominee will be. Sound plan.


Any less sound than refusing the votes of Michigan and Florida Democrats or the whole concept in general of superdelegates exercising a vote that no citizen gave them?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 07:20 am
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Any less sound than refusing the votes of Michigan and Florida Democrats or the whole concept in general of superdelegates exercising a vote that no citizen gave them?

The Michigan and Florida Democrats pulled their own votes. The rules were in place and they chose to ignore them figuring there would be no real consequences. They were wrong. Next time around, the Republican primaries will be a mess with each state seeking advantage, but I doubt many Democratic state organizations will break the rules.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 10:12 am
engineer wrote:
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Any less sound than refusing the votes of Michigan and Florida Democrats or the whole concept in general of superdelegates exercising a vote that no citizen gave them?

The Michigan and Florida Democrats pulled their own votes. The rules were in place and they chose to ignore them figuring there would be no real consequences. They were wrong. Next time around, the Republican primaries will be a mess with each state seeking advantage, but I doubt many Democratic state organizations will break the rules.


New Hampshire's primary date was set by the DNC as January 22, but New Hampshire ignored that and held theirs earlier. Why should Florida and Michigan be punished for similarly scheduling a primary before its DNC-authorized date?
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 10:29 am
Advocate wrote:
It seems that the right hates strong, independent, women, which explains the visceral hatred of Hillary..


Like that long-time right-winger, Camille Paglia writing in Salon -

Hillary's gonads must be sending out sci-fi rays that paralyze the paleo-feminist mind -- because her career, attached to her husband's flapping coattails, has sure been heavy on striking pious attitudes but ultra-light on concrete achievements...
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2008 02:20 pm
Wuh oh.

http://www.observer.com/2008/ickes-blame-penn

Quote:
Ickes: Blame Penn


Never looks good when your senior staff starts publicly blaming each other for the upcoming loss.

Cycloptichorn
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:19 pm
The problem with Hillary's campaign is that she is being bested by a better candidate. While Hillary often comes across a bit shrill, Obama is always cool and collected. Many people are turned off by Bill's injection of "we."

Obama is a former community organizer, which might be paying off in this campaign. While I am not thrilled by his speeches, many are.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Feb, 2008 08:13 am
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Feb, 2008 10:12 am
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Feb, 2008 10:19 am
Quote:
They appreciate that Clinton followed what she was told were the rules of how to run for president, only to find that still may not be enough.

"She was told you need experience, toughness and the ability to raise money, and yet the system changed the rules again," said Joan McLean, a top adviser to Geraldine Ferraro in her 1984 vice presidential run and a professor of political science at Ohio Wesleyan University.


Question

I've said this before, but as a feminist -- who thinks there is still plenty of sexism in America -- I think it's more empowering to vote for a woman who is also the best candidate than to vote for the second-best candidate simply because she's a woman.

I think that will happen before too long -- that there will be a woman candidate who is also the best in the field -- and I look forward to voting for that person.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Feb, 2008 10:25 am
sozobe wrote:
I think it's more empowering to vote for a woman who is also the best candidate than to vote for the second-best candidate simply because she's a woman.

Indeed.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Feb, 2008 03:54 pm
Still about that same quote:

Quote:
They appreciate that Clinton followed what she was told were the rules of how to run for president, only to find that still may not be enough.

"She was told you need experience, toughness and the ability to raise money, and yet the system changed the rules again," said Joan McLean, a top adviser to Geraldine Ferraro in her 1984 vice presidential run and a professor of political science at Ohio Wesleyan University.


But isnt this what being a good politician is all about? To be in touch with what is needed at the moment, and be aware and skilled enough to change your approach and understanding over time when necessary? It's what separates the dogged career workers who never quite make it from the genuine talents, who do break through that top barrier, where hard work alone no longer is enough.

So I dont see the suggested women angle about this. The undertone I sense in the paragraph is that, basically - "they told her, even as a woman, if you just work hard enough according to these rules A, B and C, you will get there; and of course, now that she's done all that, they come up with some new reason why she doesnt match up". But the frustration described here is one shared by many, many hard-working apparatchiks, male and female, who do their very best according to what they were told would work, and then at the last moment are thwarted. Because they just didnt have "it", or get "it", whatever that "it" is. It's why Bill Clinton succeeded, and Al Gore failed.

The "it" being, maybe, the instinct to realise that the office of the Presidency is one that requires just that bit more than just doggedly checking your career achievement boxes; it requires vision, and judgement, that makes you out of the ordinary, and keeps you from making the casually convenient mistakes you end up making when checking the boxes.

Yeah, I mean - take Al Gore. He must have felt exactly the same. He went through all the prerequisite steps. Worked hard, studied hard. Collected experience as Senator. Spent long years as Veep, building up the detailed policy expertise he was told was necessary. Had the required intelligence. And still he didnt make it. Whereas Bill Clinton, whose experience was limited to being the Governor of a small, Southern state at the low end of the country's economic and educational development - he succeeded.

Is it fair? No. Did JFK "deserve" the Presidency more than Adlai Stevenson, the tireless campaigner? Probably not. Was he the more skilled politician? Obviously. More relevantly, was he a better President than Adlai would have been? Probably. Hard work will only get you so far. The Presidency is one job for which political talent and superior judgement will override long years of work. Otherwise we'd have been looking at Democratic Presidential nominee Joe Biden now.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Feb, 2008 04:01 pm
<nodding>

By the way, I didn't make a clear transition... my Question was in response to that quote (as in, it doesn't make sense), and then I went on to address other parts of the article.

I think it doesn't make sense for exactly the reasons nimh lays out. You don't get to be president by checking a series of boxes. It's more than that. Nothing is owed to Hillary. A presidency shouldn't be owed to anyone -- it should be earned. I don't consider this over yet -- I still see scenarios in which Hillary gets the nomination. But IF Obama gets it, I think he will have earned it fair and square.
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