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Hillary Clinton for President - 2008

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 08:14 am
There are like, wow I lost count, quite a few strawmen there, but I'll give a short answer.

Watch how consistent.

I would really like to vote for:

1.) A candidate who has good ideas

who is also

2.) Skilled at conveying those ideas.

Kerry, for example, had #1 but not #2. That did him in.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 08:26 am
I thought Kerry was great relative to both counts. However, the Rep swiftboaters attacked and Kerry was too slow in responding.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 08:42 am
I think the success of the Swiftboaters had a lot to do with pre-existing problems with #2. People couldn't quite connect to Kerry, thought he was elitist and remote. I think he formed sentences fine but wasn't a communicator.
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 09:48 am
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/J/c/1/kerry_iraq_soldiers.jpg
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 11:12 am
How Hillary Clinton blew a sure thing
Sadly, I agree with a lot of the opinions in this article. Many of her campaign staff failed Clinton by not recognizing and adjusting to the Obama campaign. By the time they realized what was happening, it was too late. Bill Clinton didn't help and did more harm than good. Hillary would have been a great president, much better than her husband. I still have hope, but it is fading.---BBB Crying or Very sad
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 11:17 am
Re: How Hillary Clinton blew a sure thing
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Sadly, I agree with a lot of the opinions in this article. Many of her campaign staff failed Clinton by not recognizing and adjusting to the Obama campaign. By the time they realized what was happening, it was too late.


Don't you think Hillary gets some of the blame for that, though? From the article:

Quote:
"It does seem odd to have someone at the top of the organization who has no campaign experience," one strategist said. "Bill Clinton had people who had run campaigns. Patti and Maggie were there by virtue of their personal loyalty, not their campaign experience."


Anyway, I'm not counting her out just yet. It's certainly looking better and better for Obama but Ohio seems stubbornly pro-Hillary (I keep shaking my head [or rattling off letters] at local coverage -- as one minor example, I was watching the local news after the Thursday debate and they said that Obama was "suddenly cordial" in it -- eh? "Suddenly?" He's been the cordial one throughout. )
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 11:25 am
Sozobe
Sozobe, the "buck" stops with Hillary Clinton. "She chose an inexperienced campaign manager, crafted a message that didn't match the moment, fielded poor organizations in key states and built a budget that ran dry just when she needed money most."

Another thing I don't understand is why they didn't build a better mailing list of ordinary people instead of depending on big contributors? That was a deadly elitist mistake. It also didn't encourage ordinary people to donate and campaign for her. People are more likely to volunteer in campaigns if they've donated money to her campaign. I, for example, I voted for Clinton but was never contacted by the Clinton campaign to donate or to volunteer. Big mistake.

My first choice candidate was Senator Joe Biden. I still think he was the best qualified candidate for the common good of the country.

BBB
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 12:18 pm
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 12:49 pm
Re: Sozobe
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Another thing I don't understand is why they didn't build a better mailing list of ordinary people instead of depending on big contributors? That was a deadly elitist mistake. It also didn't encourage ordinary people to donate and campaign for her. People are more likely to volunteer in campaigns if they've donated money to her campaign. I, for example, I voted for Clinton but was never contacted by the Clinton campaign to donate or to volunteer. Big mistake.

I think this is a weakness of the Clintons in general. Since B. Clinton's first term, they've always gone with the "smart" crowd and assumed that they and their allies know best. The little people have never been high on their list. The Republicans have always been good at moving the common man using fear. Fear of terrorism, fear of homosexuals, fear of immigrants, etc. Clinton tries to fight for that vote, but she really doesn't connect. She doesn't offer something to counter the fear.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 04:50 pm
sozobe wrote:
I think the success of the Swiftboaters had a lot to do with pre-existing problems with #2. People couldn't quite connect to Kerry, thought he was elitist and remote. I think he formed sentences fine but wasn't a communicator.


You may have a point. He was more in tune with those well educated and informed, and probably held in some disdain by those less educated and informed.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 05:25 pm
BBB, agreed on where the buck stops.

By the way, I was making a point with my #1 and #2 above, but for the record I'll add #3, "ability to bring good ideas to fruition." I think that Obama is the strongest there, too.

Advocate, yeah. I think Kerry would have made a good president -- certainly better than Bush! -- but he was so darn Northeastern, in all the wrong ways.
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 07:29 am
Hillary has reached another new low for her sarcastic display as indicated here.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/52534.html

I do not recall Obamas message of hope including any of the "smack" this fat witch was mentioning.

I probably will not vote for Obama, however, I find him an interesting and fresh face on the scene. From the perspective of political experience, he has at least as much as the CarpetBagger from Illinois or Arkansas has.

She is boring and so is her "posse".
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stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 02:29 pm
Re: Hillary Clinton for President - 2008
Butrflynet wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any one place for supporters of the Hillary Clinton for President campaign to gather and discuss things on A2K.

Now there is...


ding dong the witch is dead!

or so we hope!

please Dorthey drop your house on her!!!
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 04:58 pm
I'm starting to get annoyed with the anti-Hillary speak. She's not my candidate but the overt personalized nastiness is annoying.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 06:55 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
I'm starting to get annoyed with the anti-Hillary speak. She's not my candidate but the overt personalized nastiness is annoying.


Shocked
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 06:58 pm
Quote:


Source

Cheney's modus operandi - she haz it.
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engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 08:44 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
I'm starting to get annoyed with the anti-Hillary speak. She's not my candidate but the overt personalized nastiness is annoying.

I think you find that with just about every candidate mentioned here. It is not too hard to find anti-McCain, anti-Obama, anti_Nadar, etc threads all through the board. You have to work hard to find civil debate just about anywhere these days.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 10:37 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Where are the Keating Five Today?
By Liz - Feb 16th, 2008 at 10:50 am EST



Introduction

Both McCain and Hillary Clinton (although not a member of the Keating Five) are survivors, few will argue that: In addition to Vietnam, McCain survived being one of the Keating Five and lived to be a candidate for the highest office in this land, and Hillary survived numerous scandals of the Clinton Administration, not to mention a few of her own (Whitewater and her 6 year s experience as a paid Board member of Wal-Mart, the largest union busting corporation in the world being two of the most outstanding). But I am one voter who hardly considers a candidate's ability to survive as a recommendation in and of itself for the office of the President of the United States of America.

It's interesting to see how intertwined the Clintons are with McCain as one researches deeper into the roots of the current Mortgage crisis. Its roots appear to go back to the Savings and Loan Crisis. I'm beginning to better understand what Bill Clinton means when he said that his wife and John McCain would have a most civil campaign. I imagine they would--but not necessarily for reasons that would please a REAL democrat.

WHERE ARE THE KEATING FIVE TODAY?

The three most significant players in today's terms of the Keating Five were: John McCain, John Glenn (who recently endorsed Hillary Clinton) and Dennis DeConini whom Bill Clinton in 1995 appointed to the Board of Directors of the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation.

This is an incredibly, intellectually dishonest, but clever, attempt at reconfiguring history. The insinuation implicit in this comment is that John McCain was one of the most significant players in the Keating Five. Of course the reality is that McCain was the least significant of the Keating Five in terms (that actually matter) of questionably ethical behavior.

As the presumptive Republican nominee for the presidency in 2008, McCain is, obviously, THE most significant player IN TODAY'S TERMS. Of course this is an utterly irrelevant perspective. Because someone, IN TODAY'S TERMS, is significant has nothing to do with that person's significance in an incident that took place decades ago.

For comparison sake let's consider a hypothetical. Ten years ago a young woman is murdered in Chicago. One of the people the police question is Barrack Obama because there is a rumor that the two have had an affair. No one is ever able to prove the affair let alone that Obama had anything to do with the demise of the young woman. Now, ten years later, a journalist who is willing to scarifice her credibility for the sake of her politics writes an article that tells us that IN TODAY'S TERMS, Obama is the most significant suspect in the murder of this woman.

Well yes, in today's terms, he would be unless Bill Clinton or George Bush were also questioned.

This hypothetical exaggerates to make a point which should not be dismissed simply because McCain is a Republican.

The most significant figures among the Keating Five, by any all meaningful terms, were Democrats, and the most significant was Alan Cranston.

Yes, this author, eventually, acknowledges this, but her attempt to paint McCain and Hillary Clinton in shades of black is quite obvious.

By the author's reasoning, let's consider Ted Kennedy's endorsement of Obama. She, obviously, has a huge problem with Hillary accepting the endorsement of the utterly corrupt John Glenn, but apparently no problem with Obama's acceptance of the endorsement of a man who left a young woman to drown while he saved his political ass.

Since we should judge Hillary by her endorsers, let's look at Obama's: Al Sharpton - Well there's an upstanding individual. Can you say Tawana Brawley? Hulk Hogan? No problem there? John Kerry? Three Purple Hearts and never a day's sick leave.

So it's all a Republican Attack Machine - right?





Clinton's appointment was the year after DeConini had retired because of the Savings and Loan scandal and the subsequent Senate Ethics committee in 1991 that had concluded that Cranston, DeConcini, and Riegle's conduct constituted substantial interference with the FHLBB's enforcement efforts and that they had done so at the behest of Charles Keating. The committee recommended censure for Cranston and criticized the other four for "questionable conduct."

Why on earth would a President such appoint a man of such questionable background to a position of influence in the financial industry? And one might just as well question the judgm ent of Hillary Clinton for accepting the endorsement of John Glenn, who was also a member of the Keating Five. Did she think that Americans would be so stupid as to only remember Glenn's history as astronaut? Part of being President of this country involves using good judgment and vetting your endorsements and people who contribute money to your campaigns.

Hillary is quick to criticize Obama on Rezko while ignoring her own lack of judgment allow a photo of herself to be taken with Rezko, and to not vet the contributions coming from Hsu a contributor to Hillary's campaign. Hsu now is facing possible jail time as is Rezko. Both candidates have returned the funds.

WHERE IS MCCAIN TODAY?

This senator is one of two from the Keating Five who was e xonerated in a declaration that his only crime was "poor judgment"--still this is not an altogether reassuring endorsement for a man who is now running for the highest office in our land.

WHERE IS JOHN GLENN TODAY?

Well this 87 year old (the third American to fly in space and the first American to orbit the Earth) lives in Ohio and has recently endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Glenn was named one of the "Keating Five" for accepting a $200,000 contribution from convicted savings and loan executive Charles H. Keating Jr., but a 1991 Senate commission declared that his only crime was "poor judgment."

Glenn and Republican Senator John McCain were the only Senators exoneratedGlenn's role in the Senate fund-raising hearings struck some observers as atypical. The normally even- tempered Glenn repeatedly lambasted majority Republicans, including committee chairman Fred Thompson, for "hardball" partisanship.


WHERE IS DENNIS DECONINI TODAY?

Unlike Glenn and McCain, the Senate Ethics committee in 1991 concluded that Cranston, DeConcini, and Riegle's conduct constituted substantial interference with the FHLBB's enforcement efforts and that they had done so at the behest of Charles Keating. Needless to say, DeConini did not get re-elected. But not to worry, Bill had a job for him. Bill Clinton in 1995 appointed to the Board of Directors of the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation, and many are questioning today DeConini's influence on the current mortgage crisis.

Today DeConini has his fingers in numerous pies:
On Feb 13, 2008, the Corrections Corporation of America, the largest provider of corrections management services to government agencies ann ounced that DeConcini has been elected as a member of its board of directors.

Perhaps one of the reasons why DeConini was appointed to the board of directors including his connections to the Clintons might also be the fact that DeConcini also is a Principal in the lobbyist consulting firm Parry, Romani, DeConcini & Lacy P.C. in Washington, D.C.

http://www.ibtimes.com/prnews/20080213/corrections-corporation-of-america-elects-former-senator-dennis-deconcini-to-its-board-of-directors.htm

WHERE IS ALAN CRANSTON TODAY?

He died in 2000 at the age of 86.
From WIKI: He was reprimanded by the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Ethics for "improper conduct" on November 20, 1991 after he accepted $1 million in campaign contributions from the Lincoln Savings head, Charles Keating. Keating had wanted federal regulators to stop "hounding" his savings and loan. The committee deemed Cranston's misconduct the worst among the Keating Five. Cranston decided against running for a fifth term while he battled prostate cancer.

WHERE IS RIEGLE TODAY?

Senator Donald W. Riegle, Jr. was one of the three from the KEATING Five whose conduct was found to have constituted substantial interference with the FHLBB's enforcement efforts and that they had done so at the behest of Charles Keating. He wisely did not run for re-election to the Senate.

But if you think that his influence is DC has wained, you would be wrong. Like DeConini, Riegle too is among the many federal lobbyists who now crowd DC and peddle their influence. In 1995, he joined Weber Shandwick Public Affairs in Washington, D.C., serving as executive committee chair.

But as one who has a soft spot in her heart for Veterans, it is to Riegle's credit that he was very outspoken in asking for further investigation and recourse for war veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome.

You may remember how our government wanted to pretend that this syndrome did not exist so they could get out of paying for our veterans healthcare. And please note: This was in 1994 on Bill Clinton's watch when our Vets were being treated this way.


DO YOU BEGIN TO GET THE DRIFT OF HOW AND WHY DC IS SO CORRUPT AND RIFE WITH LOBBYISTS PEDDLING THEIR INFLUENCE IN DC? Hillary thinks this is just fine--which is but one more reason why she will not get my vote in the upcoming Texas Primary.


Link To Post: http://www.democrats.org/page/community/post/elizabethberry/CtGT
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 11:37 pm
nimh wrote:
nimh wrote:
Breakfast with Chelsea? Yes, you can - if you're a superdelegate

And Bill will call you too. And John Kerry. And Madeleine Albright.



Quote:
College Junior Breakfasts With Chelsea Clinton
21-Year-Old Wisconsin Super Delegate Gets Face Time With Former First Daughter


ABC News
Feb. 11, 2008


The 21-year old in question, Jason Rae, says Marc Ambinder, has endorsed Barack Obama.


Yep. Gotta love his reason:

Quote:
He cited Obama's support from an overwhelming majority of young voters as the major reason for his decision.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/21/superdelegate-schmoozed-by-chelsea-backs-obama/

What a sheep.

Can this poli sci major think for himself? It appears that he cannot.

Doncha just love the education system that churns out such Me Toos ?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:01 am
This witch, Hillary, is a liar. Obviously she can not control her staff as this is not the first time someone "on her staff" leaked something negative out about Obama.

If she can not control her staff, how can she possible lead a nation?

Oh, right, I forgot, 35 years of experience. My a$$! Evil or Very Mad

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/clinton-on-phot.html

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Jacqueline Klingebiel Report: During a Monday interview with ABC's Dallas affiliate, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., did not flatly deny the DrudgeReport's charge that her campaign forwarded a photo of rival Barack Obama in traditional African dress.

She then turned the tables on her Democratic rival and accused him of using the controversy to distract the public's attention from deficiencies in his platform and experience.

"I know nothing about it," Clinton told ABC affiliate WFAA. "This is in the public domain. But let's just stop and ask yourself: 'Why are you -- why is anybody concerned about this?'"
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