Have you ever broke up with a guy and he cried?

hawkeye10 wrote:

JPB wrote:
primary focus on wanting the other person to be happy..

Are you sure that you want to go on record as believing that your mate being happy is more important than you being happy? That it is your responsibility to see after your mates happiness? No...didn't think so.

Very few of us know our mates well enough to know what they want in any case, guesses and going by what the other person says is almost assuring that we will get it wrong. Much better if two people go after what they want, try to make the relationship work for them. And yes part of this is doing what you can to keep your mate happy.

In this case we are talking about women who tell their mates that they are leaving, presumably women who are not getting what they want out of the relationship. Leaving is a valid choice, however if they have never fought for what they want with-in the relationship (engaged in power games) I would need to question their courage, as well as their plan for ever getting their needs met in life.

As for the men who cry to them over their leaving, you already know what I think of that.

Happiness within a relationship, certainly. Personal happiness comes from within. No one can make you happy or give you happiness. An unhappy person will have a very difficult time finding happiness within a relationship. Happiness and being part of a happy, rewarding, longterm relationship are two different things.

In this case, a woman leaving a relationship for whatever reason is well within her purview to do so. No one is bound to stay in a relationship, particularly one where her partner has spent his energies trying to take from it what he wants.

You assume that getting one's needs met requires involvement of another party. If so, that search could well take a lifetime.

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hawkeye10 wrote:

emotional abuse is hurting someone on purpose in the pursuit of what you want. However, there need to be no abuse for for masculine crying to be a problem. The simple fact that the woman knows how to get what she wants by side stepping negotiation and going right to her man's weak spot is the problem. even if up to that point everything had been above board her perception that she has other options is the problem.

Most of us have been around enough to know that we sometimes do things we never thought we would do...knowing about the option is the problem.

How is a male (or anyone) crying "getting what one wants"....unless the objective is making someone cry.

How on earth do you support your assertion that male crying is always because someone has "side-stepped negotiation and gone to her man's weak spots"?

You haven't made ANY argument worth a pinch of **** that crying IS weakness.

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I have been in the arms of a man that was crying. And I cried right along with him. Crying from the heart is not a sign of weakness. I think a man that lets you see that side of him, in sincerity, is a man I could fall deeply in love with. I would be afraid of a man that refused to cry because it was not macho to do so.

That being said .........

hawkeye10 wrote:

Years ago I was seeing a counselor, and during that time my wife decided that she wanted a divorce.....My counselor suggested that I cry, because she would not expect it from me and it would shake her up.

So what's up with a counselor who tells a man to cry so he can shake his wife up? Or in other wordsmanipulate her. There is nothing wrong with crying when it is sincere. But when it's done to try and change someones thinking so you have a better chance of getting what you want that's a stupid game! Nothing "real" in that effort to regain a lost relationship. The only thing you'll gain is her loss of respect for you.

Thinking that a relationship has to be encompassed within power games is unhealthy and will most likely bring destruction over the long haul. The power in the relationship should be the power over one's own self..coupled with equality between the two. Much better foundation to build a relationship on IMO.

I think you men would do better in your relationships if you left your machoist doctrine at the door.

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I think Hawkeye has quite a mechanistic view of human relations, which is fine for him, his business. The instructional tone gets my goat a bit though - but many of us do that from time to time.

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As an observation - I have never seen a single relationship that didn't involve power games at the beginning (note : there may be a difference here between people regariding the definition of 'power games')

They are a normal way of getting to know each others likes and dislikes, what will be done (and when), how things will be done etc.

Of course, some power games will be recurr again at specific points, and some will recurr over & over (nagging, and the actions resulting in nagging can be an example), and other new ones will be found as people change. Usually one person is seen as the dominant one in a relationship. It is rare that both are completely equal.

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ossobuco wrote:

I think Hawkeye has quite a mechanistic view of human relations, which is fine for him, his business. The instructional tone gets my goat a bit though - but many of us do that from time to time.

Could be a masculine/feminine thing....masculine guys are going to communicate differently and approach relationships differently than the feminine do. masculine/feminine....men/women are not built the same, and we don't care about the same things. If I respect you and your position, and you respect me and my position, we should be able to communicate and work together (speaking generally about gender relationships). But don't expect me to abandon my ways and my ground just because you do things differently. I will return the favor.

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vikorr wrote:

As an observation - I have never seen a single relationship that didn't involve power games at the beginning (note : there may be a difference here between people regariding the definition of 'power games')

They are a normal way of getting to know each others likes and dislikes, what will be done (and when), how things will be done etc.

Of course, some power games will be recurr again at specific points, and some will recurr over & over (nagging, and the actions resulting in nagging can be an example), and other new ones will be found as people change. Usually one person is seen as the dominant one in a relationship. It is rare that both are completely equal.

I think that you are right on all counts, however once the relationship moves into an established dominant/submissive relationship they are still playing a power game. they are not longer fighting over who has what power, they are playing at power exchange, a more advanced power game.

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vikorr wrote:

As an observation - I have never seen a single relationship that didn't involve power games at the beginning (note : there may be a difference here between people regariding the definition of 'power games')

They are a normal way of getting to know each others likes and dislikes, what will be done (and when), how things will be done etc.

Of course, some power games will be recurr again at specific points, and some will recurr over & over (nagging, and the actions resulting in nagging can be an example), and other new ones will be found as people change. Usually one person is seen as the dominant one in a relationship. It is rare that both are completely equal.

Sure.....

Don't mean Hawkthingy's twaddle about men crying makes any sense.

(I've developed some awful tummy bug, and I'm too sick to be bothered with developing an argument...I'm just gonna call twaddle twaddle. With any luck I'll make you cry, then I've won, dunno what, something apparently....and I don't have to respect you in the morning or some damned thing.....or is that the cheque's in the male? )

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I'm almost offended at the original question. (I'm not mad though, I understand the perception)

Heaven forbid men experience the full spectrum of emotions or react in any emotional manner whatsoever.

Perhaps I'm just a bitter. I seem to get the short end of the break up stick everytime.

T
K
O

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Quote:

(I've developed some awful tummy bug, and I'm too sick to be bothered with developing an argument...I'm just gonna call twaddle twaddle. With any luck I'll make you cry, then I've won, dunno what, something apparently....and I don't have to respect you in the morning or some damned thing.....or is that the cheque's in the male? )

Somehow you've started off feminine, crossed the border and captured the essence of what it is to be male... Shocked

...I think it all started with the words "then I've won..." Twisted Evil

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Have you ever broke up with a guy and he cried?

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