Have you ever broke up with a guy and he cried?

Fact: many females think that a man crying is a sign of weakness.

You can rationalize, sympathize intellectualize and politicize till the cows come home, but won't change that underlying fact!

There is no doubt that many posters on A2K are not representative of the generalized population / viewpoints / perspectives.

If you reread the list of 'crying's that I said, in my opinion, would cause a problem, and which crying wouldn't cause a problem - you will find the only two I stated outright would cause a problem were the breakup, and the woman upsetting you....that pretty much is in line with Hawkeye's thing about a woman 'causing' a guy emotional pain, and him crying (though I would not have said that it is a problem because it leads to more manipulation...which it may or may not...I would have said the problem is the resulting perception)
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Wow, alternate universe.

Personally, I find the idea of being with a guy who refuses to reveal any "weak spots" for fear of having them exploited way more repellent than any sort of crying. People cry occasionally. Big whoop.

emotional abuse is hurting someone on purpose in the pursuit of what you want. However, there need to be no abuse for for masculine crying to be a problem. The simple fact that the woman knows how to get what she wants by side stepping negotiation and going right to her man's weak spot is the problem. even if up to that point everything had been above board her perception that she has other options is the problem.

Most of us have been around enough to know that we sometimes do things we never thought we would do...knowing about the option is the problem.

sidestepping negotiation and going for the weak spot IS an abuse... and again, men do it just as much.

i hear you loud and clear, but happen to disagree with you. repeating your points will not change that.

My position is that power games are natural and are part of most intimate relationships (at least the worthwhile ones) and that manipulation is one face of the game. For me this is not a negative term. However, you don't want to go there with me i am fine with using "perception"

In that case the statement is that once the woman knows that her man is susceptible to emotional pain then she knows his weak spot with-in the relationship. She knows that her emotional knowledge and skills are far superior to any mans, and that she can at any time use that knowledge and skill to get what she wants from him, Once she knows that she has a back door in even if she thinks that he would never use it, that if she chooses to use it he will not stand up to her, then she is no longer free the be purely feminine. she must in part watch out for herself, because her man is incapable of always doing it.

in this case the masculine/feminine dance ha been severely compromised.

I can't imagine a position that I agree with less. Power games are anything but natural to any relationship that I would be in for longer than the time it took for the first such instance to occur. Manipulation as a positive within a worthwhile relationship is equally foreign.

primary focus on wanting the other person to be happy..