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Have you ever broke up with a guy and he cried?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 10:24 pm
I'm a woman. A nice guy left me. I have some fair reason for vitriol.

Nice is an odd word, we could tangent on that.

Bitterness isn't very useful. There are sane people of both sexes who deal fairly directly if you look around for them. I'll admit it's taken me a while to read through surface, and now I'm older, past the fray, more or less. But you folks aren't.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 10:35 pm
Quote:
Nice is an odd word, we could tangent on that.

Bitterness isn't very useful.
Agreed on both counts.

Quote:
There are sane people of both sexes who deal fairly directly if you look around for them.
They are everywhere around us Very Happy
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 10:48 pm
smiles back at you, vikorr. Straight talk is possible. Wish I understood that sooner, or how to get that to happen sooner.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 10:57 pm
I think it takes all of us some little time, and experience learned, to come to understand this :wink:
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 10:57 pm
there are men who are strong and those that are not.

there are men who cry and those who don't.

the two are not related.

an emotionally mature man has no reason to stick to the stupid "boys don't cry" rule, which is being pushed out of the mainstream (if slowly) anyway - it's becoming old and cliche (to many women anyway. men seem far more stuck on it). i join the ranks of the women here who say we don't mind a man who cries honestly, breakup being no different than other serious reasons.

personally, if i spent years of my life with someone and we parted ways, and the person i shared my life with did not even shed one tear, i'd think he's a monster or entirely screwed up. i never cared for double standards, especially if they are particularly stupid as the "boys don't cry" rule is.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 11:06 pm
Quote:
an emotionally mature man has no reason to stick to the stupid "boys don't cry" rule


True enough - yet not many of us are as emotionally mature as we believe ourselves to be, or would wish ourselves to be.

Internal understanding plays a large part, and it is often hard to come by.

Removing ourselves from self deception plays a large part...and not all of us come to realise this.

Being aware of our intrinsic value plays a large part, and yet not all of us know how to find it and value it.

As an expansion of crying at breakups - an emotionally mature man, if he does cry at a breakup, reacts differently to the breakup than an emotionally immature (though I hate to use that word, because it's not accurate) man...and lets not forget there's very few reasons for a woman to leave an emotionally mature man with whom she fell in love.

With many divorces I've seen, neither party is reacting emotionally mature - even the older couple divorces (at least this applies into the 40's - haven't seen many at all in the 50's + range)
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 11:11 pm
Now there's a sentence....
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 11:23 pm
there are plenty of good reasons to part ways outside of emotional immaturity. you are right, vikorr, than many don't realize their intrinsic value, that many don't understand or deceive themselves....

...that still does not mean that it's the CRYING that makes a man look weak or immature. it's the other things you mentioned.

i am also quite alright with emotionally immature man crying. i never liked crying too much in men OR women.... but the gender does not matter much here to me.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 11:30 pm
I'd rather have sex than cry... but you do what you have to.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 11:37 pm
Quote:
there are plenty of good reasons to part ways outside of emotional immaturity.

I place this apparently along side my statement "and lets not forget there's very few reasons for a woman to leave an emotionally mature man with whom she fell in love." In that context, I find the statement confusing.

Quote:
...that still does not mean that it's the CRYING that makes a man look weak or immature.


Would you care to clarify then? So that we are clear on your meaning.

Quote:
i am also quite alright with emotionally immature man crying. i never liked crying too much in men OR women.... but the gender does not matter much here to me.

That's fair enough.

You do understand this thread was not about whether or not you think it okay for a friend to cry, but whether or not you think it okay for a male lover/partner to cry (and whether or not you are still as attracted to him afterwards).

....................

Psst Dadpad - you're not meant to be so blatant about it...and I'm not sure I appreciate staring at a koala's rear end Shocked Laughing
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 11:44 pm
why is the statement confusing, because i disagree with you on that one?

man is immature because of all those things you mentioned - not understanding self, not appreciating self, yada yada yada... certainly NOT because he cries... that's just completely separate. But i said that already.

and i said already that it is okay for a man to cry over a breakup and remain an attractive manly man (or remain a wuss... but cryin will not suddenly turn a manly man into a wuss or not crying a wuss into a manly man)...that's what the whole thread indeed is about...
so not much to add.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 12:06 am
Quote:
why is the statement confusing, because i disagree with you on that one?


? I agree with what you said.

The confusion arises because I was talking about emotional maturity and few reasons to break up…and you were talking about emotional immaturity and many reasons to break up…it's confusing because while I agree with what you said, you appear to be talking about something different than I was, while relating it back to what I was talking about - so it's not clear that you intended to say exactly what you said.

Quote:
and i said already that it is okay for a man to cry over a breakup and remain an attractive manly man (or remain a wuss... but cryin will not suddenly turn a manly man into a wuss or not crying a wuss into a manly man)...that's what the whole thread indeed is about...
so not much to add.

Fair enough - you related it back to both men and women, which (unless you are bi) made it look like you were relating the crying to friendship, not to intimacy/sexual attraction.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 12:14 am
actually, what I believe is behind the notion of not crying to your woman about the relationship is the idea that if your woman has the power over you to put you into enough emotional pain that you need to cry about it then you are continually subject to feminine manipulation. The emotional is one of the primary domains of feminine power. Masculine and feminine both need to be strong enough and whole enough to be immune to manipulation, the man who will cry about his relationship is not.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 12:28 am
hawkeye10 wrote:
actually, what I believe is behind the notion of not crying to your woman about the relationship is the idea that if your woman has the power over you to put you into enough emotional pain that you need to cry about it then you are continually subject to feminine manipulation. The emotional is one of the primary domains of feminine power. Masculine and feminine both need to be strong enough and whole enough to be immune to manipulation, the man who will cry about his relationship is not.


Prove it.
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 12:34 am
vikorr, i'm saying that emotional maturity does not guarantee smooth sailing on its own either. you can have a perfectly emotionally mature partner, yet there may still be dozens of valid reasons for a breakup.
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 12:36 am
hawkeye10 wrote:
actually, what I believe is behind the notion of not crying to your woman about the relationship is the idea that if your woman has the power over you to put you into enough emotional pain that you need to cry about it then you are continually subject to feminine manipulation. The emotional is one of the primary domains of feminine power. Masculine and feminine both need to be strong enough and whole enough to be immune to manipulation, the man who will cry about his relationship is not.


you know, some relationships are based on love and trust, not manipulation, power play and suspicion. but if you approach every relationship with suspicion, you won't get an equal trusting relationship.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 01:00 am
checking in upon going to bed and then getting up again to read here.

Ah, you all make sense re who I think you all mean to convey.

Ok, hasta manana.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 01:04 am
Quote:
vikorr, i'm saying that emotional maturity does not guarantee smooth sailing on its own either. you can have a perfectly emotionally mature partner, yet there may still be dozens of valid reasons for a breakup.


Of course...people change as they grow...sometimes they grow apart. Sometimes life itself puts obstacles in their paths.

In relation to Hawkeye - I see where he is coming from.

One thing to remember is that those people attracted to this forum are usually from the group that questions life a bit more, and have an intellectual interest in various things (including the forum you are posting on)...so you may not belong to many of the 'generalised' groups that people talk about, and saying "but I'm not that way" doesn't make it true for the rest of the 'general' population.

If you reread the list of 'crying's that I said, in my opinion, would cause a problem, and which crying wouldn't cause a problem - you will find the only two I stated outright would cause a problem were the breakup, and the woman upsetting you....that pretty much is in line with Hawkeye's thing about a woman 'causing' a guy emotional pain, and him crying (though I would not have said that it is a problem because it leads to more manipulation...which it may or may not...I would have said the problem is the resulting perception)

The women posting here, don't appear to be the type to cause emotional pain on purpose, or to ignore the guys needs for no reason. On the whole, they seem both assertive and curious...so the situation we are talking about doesn't appear like it would occur all that often.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 01:15 am
There is no doubt that many posters on A2K are not representative of the generalized population / viewpoints / perspectives.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Feb, 2008 01:20 am
vikorr wrote:


...and I'm not sure I appreciate staring at a koala's rear end Shocked Laughing


Laughing
put your glasses on ya nong, its the head end.
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