26
   

On the edge and toppling off....

 
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Sun 10 Feb, 2008 01:30 pm
A Shoe Shrine is much more satisfactory than a Bonfire of the Vanities.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Sun 10 Feb, 2008 01:33 pm
Izzn't it just - had such a laugh and love my mini-heels more than the real ones - so - keeping it positive right now!
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Mon 11 Feb, 2008 11:40 pm
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3091208#3091208

Thanks everyone for your support - will be back soon x Smile
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Mon 11 Feb, 2008 11:43 pm
Go girl Cool

We're all here, all the time...

RH
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Sat 1 Mar, 2008 01:44 pm
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 1 Mar, 2008 02:39 pm
Hey Izzie,

What a heavy load you've got.

I want to advise -- in the sense of I want to be helpful -- but this is such a difficult situation and with so much nuance, and it's the kind of thing I fear I couldn't confidently offer advice on until we'd talked for about a week nonstop. And maybe not even then.

My preliminary, disclaimers-up-the-wazoo impression is that J should not be part of the picture right now. There are just too many variables, too much that is up in the air, without adding something else to the juggling act. As in -- heal. Sleep. Find a new house. Complete the move. Feel at home in the new house. Maybe... hopefully... nothing to plan on... see your elder son settle down somewhat.

Once these things have happened, take stock of your own feelings, where you are, what you think about J. And go from there.

Take care.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Sat 1 Mar, 2008 02:40 pm
Hi Izzie

First -- deep, deep breaths. Writing that must have been extremely painful. Hopefully it was also cathartic.

There's quite a bit to digest in your post but a couple statements jumped out at me.

Izzie wrote:
...The fact is, when it comes to being together with someone - there has to be strength from both us - I can't make him strong enough to see my child - he has to want to do that himself. He knows that this has all got completely blown out of proportion - he could have explained to his children - he could have stayed "true to him" - but he couldn't at the time. No-one knows what the future holds. All I know is that I can't help my son, no-one can, in explaining that J is his own person and makes his own choices. He chooses not to see my son. Believe me, J suffers as much as I do on that one. But that's his choice. I move forward in life - we still have contact - my life is changing - my choice - his life is on hold. His choice.


Exactly right. Everyone makes choices. Sometimes they're choices we can be proud of, sometimes not. Sometimes they make us happy, sometimes not. You can only choose what actions you take and what you do on behalf of your children. J has made similar decisions.

I don't see how anything could have been done that would have satisfied all parties. Someone was going to be hurt. Unfortunately it's most, if not all, of you {hugs}.

Izzie wrote:
I can honestly say that I am content with "my" life - on my own and finding a whole world of bright new horizons out there. My little boy - I would say he is happy with "his" life. Neither of us want to be without my eldest son - but there is acceptance there now for the little fella and I that the big-boy cannot live in "our" world because it would make his world, and ours, a very unsafe place. We can't look after him and keep him safe with the difficulties he has.


I know how difficult this decision was for you to make. I'm glad you have found acceptance that you've done the right thing for you and both your sons.

Izzie wrote:
I have made my peace that, for now, J and I are not together. We are at different stages in our jouneys and he needs to find his direction and settle on which path to take. He exists the day to day, being there for his kids if they need him - he's a phonecall away from them, sees his son at work each day, and he is doing OKish.

I am living my life, not in any way miserably these days, without him. I am actually fine on my own - it's quite liberating - even tho it can sometimes be a little lonely when I need a real hug. We know how we feel and maybe one day our paths will head in the same direction. If they don't - then that's the way it is. If it is ever meant to be, it will. I have peace with that.


I'm glad. I'm sure it wasn't easy getting there either.

Izzie wrote:
My eldest son's life is just torturous. How do I help him get over "J". How can I help him - or do I just turn round now like my ex-husband has and say - "someone else sort it out - not gonna deal with it anymore". I can't do that. Not when he phones me every day to remind me and shout at me. I do hang up now. I've learnt how to do that. But I can't let him go. I need to make my peace on this issue and I don't know how to?


Izzie -- I'm not a professional counselor and can only offer a lay opinion. R has significant professional support and I assume they are aware of the background you've described here. Whatever feedback you get here should be tempered by the opinions of those professionally charged with his care.

From the little bit I know I don't know that there is anything you can do beyond continue to take his calls, let him know that you love him, hang up on the rants and steel yourself for the next time, hoping that eventually the rants will lessen and the talking and love will sink in. As a mother I know that you want to make the pain go away. Some pain is greater than we can cure. You may someday reach the point where you take the same path as your ex-husband, few would blame you if you did, but you're not ready to give up and that's a good thing (albeit a very hard thing for you to endure).

I don't have a good sense for how much control you have over R bumping into J but for now that's obviously not a good thing. I don't know that it ever would be, but not now.

As to continued contact with J... if those moments bring you temporary joy then you're more than entitled. On the other hand, if the pain of not being together is compounded by each contact that comes to an end then perhaps you would be better to give yourself a separation. You've done both -- complete separation and occasional contact. Which one works best for you?

I don't see an easy way for the two of you to become fully involved at this point. The situation of a year ago hasn't much changed except R has no trust for J. J's children are apparently still watching closely and haven't changed their opposition.

Tough, tough haul here, Izzie. Particularly on top of your recovery and the impending move. I don't wonder that you collapsed. Beyond continuing what you are already doing (taking calls, occasional contact with J), I don't think there are many changes that would be make a significant difference without bringing you (and potentially both of your sons) into an even greater stressful place.

Take the warning of your blackout to heart, Izzie. You're pushing yourself too hard. There's no quick fix. It's possible there's no slow fix. You are already supporting both sons as best you can. It's enough. Hopefully time will make things better. Hopefully time will settle J's children into lives of their own where they're less focused on their dad's life.

In the meantime only you can determine if seeing him occasionally is better than not seeing him at all.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Sat 1 Mar, 2008 03:12 pm
Izzie--

This note will be briefer than your woes deserve. My husband is in the hospital and I'm recovering from some gastric problems. Over the years I've noticed that my strength is limited--and if I don't act as though my strength is limited....

I'm with Sozobe. Right now you have enough to deal with without adding "J" to the mixture. Right now the two of you have incompatable baggage and you have many, many immediate problems.

Have you told your doctor about your blacking out? This could be something physical--a side effect of pain meds, for example. It could also be a sign that Izzie the Mighty is going to C-R-A-C-K.

I appreciate that your older son with his limited understanding of the world feels that you've stolen both "J" and the independent "normal" life "J" provided for him.

You can't change his illusions, but you can grant him the right to be dead wrong. Granted, this child was born with problems and he has not had an easy life. Still, you are not contributing to a "cure" by allowing him to use you as a verbal punching bag.

Social mores are a mystery to him. When you allow him to abuse you, you are making his life more complicated, not less. If taking his abuse were theraputic, he'd be giving you less abuse, not more. He's in a dead end and doesn't have the sophistication to turn around. You'll have to help him by making it clear what is unacceptable behavior.

Love is not becoming a sewer for his misery. Love is starting to treat him as an independent adult with a right to an independent world view.

You are not abandoning him. You would be providing necessary structure for a chaotic and tormented mind.

Hanging up is an excellent start. Considering that you are recovering from major surgery and about to make a major move and sorting out the ends of a failed marriage, an excellent start is the best you can manage right now.

Sorry--have to return to my local problems.

Hold your dominion.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Sat 1 Mar, 2008 03:21 pm
Hey sozobe.

My load is far lighter these days - I'm just stumbling a little these last couple of days with my eldest.

J isn't any part of the picture anymore as far as my family is concerned. I am content with being on my own, with my little guy, and, as I say, J is in a different part of his journey that I am. He has a lot of catching up to do be as comfortable with his life as I am now, in mine. He needs to actually just sort out what it is he wants from his life. I already know what I'm doing and where I'm going (thanks to A2K). So - he doesn't come into "our" world in that respect. Not at this time.

My only concern really, is how to help my eldest son come to terms with it. It's so hard for him to accept.

What my eldest says is. "You had J and the little fella and you were a happy little family, then the day he had to see me, it all stopped. The next day he left. How bad must I be for him to have left. What did I ever do". This was the second time J did this to him. Last April, then October.

That is how my eldest brain works. Thing is - he did absolutely nothing. It wasn't his fault. It wasn't mine. It just is the way J is. I can't explain that to my son.

He is so angry and sad, and can be hateful. I just don't know whether it would be easier for me just to say that J was not the person we thought he was etc. That wouldn't be truthful. Would it make it easier? I don't know. All I know is each day, I get it from my eldest, over and over about J. It breaks my heart he hurts so much. It scares me what he will do.

Thanku for replying. I don't think there are any answers to how I can deal with how my son is. Or how I get my son to accept it.


JPB wrote:




I don't have a good sense for how much control you have over R bumping into J but for now that's obviously not a good thing. I don't know that it ever would be, but not now.



Absolutely no control at all. R's care staff called me last nite to say they had seen J in the supermarket, R wanted to go up to him, but they persuaded him not to. R can go to the shop any time - sometimes he goes, but J is in the office so he doesn't see him. ONE DAY - they are going to meet up. When that will happen - who knows. What will happen - who knows. If they were on their own - no-one else there - they would probably just wrap their arms around each other and hug. That's if R hasn't landed him one on the chin first - the second possibility!



JPB wrote:

As to continued contact with J... if those moments bring you temporary joy then you're more than entitled. On the other hand, if the pain of not being together is compounded by each contact that comes to an end then perhaps you would be better to give yourself a separation. You've done both -- complete separation and occasional contact. Which one works best for you?


I don't need to see J - oh, I love seeing him - we just talk, and laugh and tell each other we love one another - that's it. Best friends. Just not together. We know how we feel - we don't need to see each other or talk all the time - it's just there. I would always want to know he's alright. But we normally know when there's something up with either of us. Just feel it. Just know. Seeing him for an hour - not seeing him - either's OK at the moment. But I couldn't let either of my kids know. I wouldn't tell them I had seen him. That would hurt them.

JPB wrote:

I don't see an easy way for the two of you to become fully involved at this point.


I wouldn't want to hun. He has a way to go yet to get where he needs to get. He may get there. He may not. I won't put life on hold waiting for something that may never happen. Got peace with that. Doesn't change the way I feel about him - just complete acceptance of the right thing to do - for me, my kids and J.


JPB wrote:

Take the warning of your blackout to heart, Izzie. You're pushing yourself too hard. There's no quick fix. It's possible there's no slow fix. You are already supporting both sons as best you can. It's enough. Hopefully time will make things better. Hopefully time will settle J's children into lives of their own where they're less focused on their dad's life..


Warning noted. Still not 100% today. Very wobbly and got a dead right leg for most of the day. Need to keep moving around. I know I just need sleep so badly. I take the sleeping tablets - just don't work. Those hamsters just don't stop spinning inside. Not even consciously thinking of things. They just keep popping in. It's just rubbish.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Sat 1 Mar, 2008 03:27 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Izzie--
My husband is in the hospital and I'm recovering from some gastric problems.


Noddy -

I'm terribly sorry your husband is in hospital and that you too have been poorly. I hope that he will get better with whatever is ailing him soon. Oh, I hope everything is OK. Sending you all the well wishes I can. Please let us know all is OK.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Sat 1 Mar, 2008 03:30 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Izzie--
Still, you are not contributing to a "cure" by allowing him to use you as a verbal punching bag.

Social mores are a mystery to him. When you allow him to abuse you, you are making his life more complicated, not less.


Noted and acting on. I won't allow him to verbally abuse me any longer - as soon as it starts - push the button.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 08:38 am
Izzie--

One of the hard parts of Motherhood (particularly Mother of a Hurting Adolescent) is learning to let go and sometimes watching them fail.

Motherhood can be a bitch.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 02:23 pm
Situation:

Big Boy here - refuses to leave ...

Care staff withdrawn after 1 hours as he is now in my care ... my problem!

Option from care staff: Call police and have son forcibly removed for trespassing

THANKU - that is a big help to me!

It's Mother's Day in the UK.


Right... what to do ...

THINKING

SUGGESTIONS?

No-one to talk to.

Positive is = I got to see my son on Mothering Sunday Smile

How good do I feel right now ...

will get back to you!
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 03:31 pm
Izzie--

Your son may lack conventional social skills, but he certainly has a genius for timing.

Ask him whether he wants to be treated like a child or like an adult?

If he says, "Child" explain that you'll visit for a bit and then he'll have to go home. If he's not prepared to be docile, switch to "adult" mode.

If he says, "Adult", explain that you'll visit for a bit and then he'll have to go home. He's old enough to understand that you have rights, too.

Of course you don't want to call the police--but you don't want to be alone after dark with an out-of-control young man, either. You have your younger son and your own health to consider.

Can your mother control him? Can she help?

Endurance may make you feel motherly, but enduring out-of-control behavior doesn't help your son.

Some days are just one damn thing after another.

Hold your dominion.

Hold your dominion.
0 Replies
 
urs53
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 03:45 pm
Reading and thinking of you, Izzie...
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:03 pm
Thank you Noddy -

Firstly - may I say I hope Mr. Noddy is feeling better.

Secondly - may I say - I have huge admiration for you and what you are going through personally, in the past and to the present. You Hold Your Dominion incredibly well and I salute your strength.

Thirdly - thank you for replying when this is just "my world" being "my world" and I struggle to think straight at times.

So ... what happened is...

Both sons, neice, nephew and Black Tulip's son came for visit. Lovely. Happy. Children all playing on wheelchair and laughing their socks off. Will be posting pics on other thread.

Niece left with Mom. Boys went into woods for couple of hours - to be boys. Big son and little son fell out. Arrived back and the proverbial cr*p hit the fan. Managed to get downstairs to rescue Mom who had come back to collect boys. I ushered 3 little ones into the car - whilst eldest started stamping his feet.... on doors etc etc etc.

Big son VERY angry at my Mom (don't know what happened - but not Mom's fault). I asked Mom to take little ones and leave big son with me. He calmed. We talked. We laughed actually. He requested care staff come and pick him up - they didn't have a driver - were going to be 2 hours. I said we'd be fine. Big son still calm. Care staff turn up - TWO of them - big son, still calm, point blank refused to leave.

Big son's world = only 2 care staff when having meltdown.
Big son not in meltdown.
TWO staff not required.
Will not get in car.
Very calm.
IT'S A BLACK AND WHITE WORLD.

Care staff tell me because he is in the house, they cannot intervene. Therefore I have to call police if I want him to leave.

After painstaking thought - phoned ex-husband who has little fella - asked him to arrange for his girfriend to look after little guy - please could he take big son back to where big son lives. Hour later - ex-hub arrives - big son says "Bye Mom, see ya later" - gets in car - GONE. No problem.

My mom is upset - so have tried to reassure her I am alright, big son is alright and all is alright.

ME - sat here - whirlwind all around but I am in the eye of the hurricane - calm, placid .......... numb I guess.

Forced some food down me (thanks Mom for cottage pie and raspberries) - now laying here ............... silence all around me.

And breathe.

So - onto my distraction thread now to be the "me that's me" inside and smiling, and hey ho, tomorrow is another day.

(oh - I don't have little son living here right now - he stays at Moms and ex-hub until I am walking properly. He needs to be thinking about just him - not me. Just me here.)

(oh oh - got lovely chocolate and card for Mothering Sunday. I shall enjoy both).

Today - Mothering Sunday - realisation that Mothering can be a delight ... and heartbreaking - all in a split second and for a lifetime.

Tired now. Hamsters spinning. Going to play.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:15 pm
Izzie--

I had two sons and six stepsons (three with "special needs") and the road to manhood is a complicated one.

At least your Mothering Sunday's ending was anti-climactic. This is not exactly soothing, but it is better than Unseemly High Drama.

Is Big Boy ever on speaking terms these days with you and your mother at the same time? I wonder how he decides who will be the Wicked Witch?

Thanks for the kind words. My road is a little easier than yours right now. I have a bit more experience and my problems are aging rapidly.

Hold your dominion.
0 Replies
 
jodie34
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:38 pm
Izzie,
You are going through so much right now. Focus on yourself for a change.
I defitentaly agree being a mother is not always wonderful. I have one son that treats me like a queen and the other one thinks he can say what ever he wants to me. He has only done this since he has a wife. I have done everything to be family but she just seems to want to be involved with her family. The thing that bothers me the most is our grandchildren are getting cheated out of me and my husband being the grandparents we would like to be. When my son calls to start a fight I just say if you called to start a fight I just think it would be better if we don't talk now and hang the phone up. So I suggest you do the same. We as parents are always so busy concentrating on our children, we forget about ourselves. Take care, you should be number one. You are so fortunate to have your mom near by. Just count your blessings we have so much to be thankful for.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:39 pm
Just read this now. What a day. Time for Izzie to play.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:43 pm
Izzie wrote:
Tired now. Hamsters spinning. Going to play.


oof...

and now?
0 Replies
 
 

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